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US Politics Thread

Fox we all know about but from a British POV I always felt CNN were credible (perhaps they were back in the Turner days) until I spent quite a lot of time out in America over the years. Watching CNN you really realise that they're just another side of the same coin. There's a lot to be said about confirmation bias and how people just gravitate to sources which play back the things they want to hear.

I had not really watched CNN until 6 months ago but since then it has been avidly. Yes they hate Trump but I think that frankly is a reasonable position. I started watching to see how Covid progressed and then the election and onwards. All of which has been a Trump abomination.

It will be interesting to see how they report on a Biden term.
 
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Fox we all know about but from a British POV I always felt CNN were credible (perhaps they were back in the Turner days) until I spent quite a lot of time out in America over the years. Watching CNN you really realise that they're just another side of the same coin. There's a lot to be said about confirmation bias and how people just gravitate to sources which play back the things they want to hear.

Exact same for me, always thought Fox was the crazy one and CNN the sensible one. Certainly not after the last few years.
 
I had not really watched CNN until 6mins ago but since then it has been avidly. Yes they hate Trump but I think that frankly is a reasonable position. I started watching to see how Covid progressed and then the election and onwards. All of which has been a Trump abomination.

It will be interesting to see how they report on a Biden term.
I think it will be heavily pro Biden even if the Republicans become more sensible. They know what drives ratings at the end of the day, it's a business. They know their audience, why mess with that. Noam Chomsky nailed it over 30 years ago in his book Manufacturing Consent.
 
Can't believe I left out racists. Maybe Nazis covered it?

Totally agree about the media though, they're just awful.

Thats the fundamental flaw for the democrats, they still don't know why 70MM voted for Trump because they can't all be racist. Clearly, for all 70MM people, Trump's racism and authoritarianism wasn't a deal-breaker though.

I can't put my finger on why they would vote for him. Elements of it are definitely financial but when you look at what is typically his base they don't earn enough to be impacted by the Biden tax policies.

I imagine part of it has to be the steady decline of manufacturing jobs and offshoring. America First and Anti-Globalism. What's incredible about that is the only jobs coming back 'onshore' are the manufacturing jobs tied to the green economy and electrification of transport. The same type of things they also think are hoaxes. My brother the silly fucker think climate change is a hoax.

When I think of him I know he hates the idea of carbon tax and being forced to have an electric car. Its coming, its unstoppable but mass adoption is miles away. Is it just a resistance to change? In a way I feel that's all conservatism really is.

To go back to the racism another thing I can't really grasp is the tooth and nail fighting to compare the capitol protest to BLM. To compare murders by white supremacists to the deaths during all the BLM protests. I see that on another forum related to finance I am on. This man vehemently denies he is racist and I want to believe that but why all the whataboutisms?
 
Thats the fundamental flaw for the democrats, they still don't know why 70MM voted for Trump because they can't all be racist. Clearly, for all 70MM people, Trump's racism and authoritarianism wasn't a deal-breaker though.

I can't put my finger on why they would vote for him. Elements of it are definitely financial but when you look at what is typically his base they don't earn enough to be impacted by the Biden tax policies.

I imagine part of it has to be the steady decline of manufacturing jobs and offshoring. America First and Anti-Globalism. What's incredible about that is the only jobs coming back 'onshore' are the manufacturing jobs tied to the green economy and electrification of transport. The same type of things they also think are hoaxes. My brother the silly fucker think climate change is a hoax.

When I think of him I know he hates the idea of carbon tax and being forced to have an electric car. Its coming, its unstoppable but mass adoption is miles away. Is it just a resistance to change? In a way I feel that's all conservatism really is.

To go back to the racism another thing I can't really grasp is the tooth and nail fighting to compare the capitol protest to BLM. To compare murders by white supremacists to the deaths during all the BLM protests. I see that on another forum related to finance I am on. This man vehemently denies he is racist and I want to believe that but why all the whataboutisms?

The Democrats abandoned the working class under Clinton. They broke with the unions and sold those traditional working class jobs down the river with GATT and NAFTA.

The Democrats are the party of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and Hollywood. They are the party of the country club Republicans like Bush Snr.

There has been a huge shift in American politics. The Republicans are now the party of the working class. The Democrats are so conceited and morally superior that they firmly believe anyone who doesn't like them must be racists or whackos. They really don't get it.

The next "Trump" won't be such an egotistical, racist, knobhead.

If the Democrats could see what they have done and do something to fix the problem, they would win the next election in a landslide but they can't and so they won't.
 
The funny part is, free markets are what have led to jobs going abroad, and they are meant to support that. They hate Government legislation managing corporations, usually.

As for the Carbon tax, where it has been tried, it actually helps lower earners. Who emits more CO2? Rich people!!! The tax on them has led to tax cuts for lower earners.
 
The Democrats abandoned the working class under Clinton. They broke with the unions and sold those traditional working class jobs down the river with GATT and NAFTA.

The Democrats are the party of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and Hollywood. They are the party of the country club Republicans like Bush Snr.

There has been a huge shift in American politics. The Republicans are now the party of the working class. The Democrats are so conceited and morally superior that they firmly believe anyone who doesn't like them must be racists or whackos. They really don't get it.

The next "Trump" won't be such an egotistical, racist, knobhead.

If the Democrats could see what they have done and do something to fix the problem, they would win the next election in a landslide but they can't and so they won't.

The Republicans would ban all Unions tomorrow, and allow employers to abuse their staff again, given the choice. They don't offer workers anything, apart from a illusion of low taxes.
 
The Republicans would ban all Unions tomorrow, and allow employers to abuse their staff again, given the choice. They don't offer workers anything, apart from a illusion of low taxes.

I think what @BodyButter is saying is it is perception and not reality. None of the parties are for working people except a small handful of individuals on both sides. I don't know republicans that well by AOC and Bernie are clearly and obviously true working-class supporters. The rest are corporate backers which is why all that money in politics has to go.
 
That's just more whataboutism.
I live in a red state. The GOP is not the party for the lower class, they raise their taxes while they give the 1% enormous tax cuts. The GOP believes trickle down economics work. They want to keep the poor people poor and uneducated, that way they will continue to vote for the GOP and against their best interests. I also know people who vote against their best interests because they don’t think people of color, women and the LGBTQ+ community should have equal rights.

I live in a “right to work” state which means anyone can be fired at any time for any reason. The GOP does not care about unions.
 
That's just more whataboutism.

No, it isn't. Trump removed safeguards from the workplace, and banking regulations. Redlining is making a comeback. It's part of their agenda. They say they represent the working man, now, because they cut taxes, but those tax cuts don't even cover the cost of the tariffs.

If you are right about Democrats, then nobody is representing them right now.
 
No, it isn't. Trump removed safeguards from the workplace, and banking regulations. Redlining is making a comeback. It's part of their agenda. They say they represent the working man, now, because they cut taxes, but those tax cuts don't even cover the cost of the tariffs.

If you are right about Democrats, then nobody is representing them right now.

Yes, nobody is representing them. They have been abandoned by the political system and they are very angry. That's what spawned the Tea Party and then Trump. A lot of Trump voters voted for Obama because he talked about hope and change and then failed to deliver. Trump talked about issues like immigration, pushing back on China, infrastructure and getting those old-fashioned working class jobs back. They were all working class issues and they love him for it.

If the Democrats hadn't rigged the primary, Bernie would have won the election because he was talking about education, healthcare and all of those issues that the American working class have been shut out of.
 
The Democrats abandoned the working class under Clinton. They broke with the unions and sold those traditional working class jobs down the river with GATT and NAFTA.

The Democrats are the party of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and Hollywood. They are the party of the country club Republicans like Bush Snr.

There has been a huge shift in American politics. The Republicans are now the party of the working class. The Democrats are so conceited and morally superior that they firmly believe anyone who doesn't like them must be racists or whackos. They really don't get it.

The next "Trump" won't be such an egotistical, racist, knobhead.

If the Democrats could see what they have done and do something to fix the problem, they would win the next election in a landslide but they can't and so they won't.

This is pretty much right. Let's not forget that the Dems had to abandon more working class principles in order get power back. Just look at the electoral maps under Reagan, a sea of red, Dukakis got a hell of a whooping by Bush Snr too. Clinton was very much a 'third way' type candidate, we had our own version with Blair. The Dems haven't really looked back from that formula since. Biden is cut from the same cloth.
 
Joe is going to strengthen Unions and bring in a $15 minimum wage. He is also going to pay off a lot of student debt. Never mind healthcare, where we all know he has a better plan than Trump ever had.
 
Yes, nobody is representing them. They have been abandoned by the political system and they are very angry. That's what spawned the Tea Party and then Trump. A lot of Trump voters voted for Obama because he talked about hope and change and then failed to deliver. Trump talked about issues like immigration, pushing back on China, infrastructure and getting those old-fashioned working class jobs back. They were all working class issues and they love him for it.

If the Democrats hadn't rigged the primary, Bernie would have won the election because he was talking about education, healthcare and all of those issues that the American working class have been shut out of.
This I think is a pretty good take on it from four years ago by Robert Reich.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election
 
Joe is going to strengthen Unions and bring in a $15 minimum wage. He is also going to pay off a lot of student debt. Never mind healthcare, where we all know he has a better plan than Trump ever had.

Biden is hugely preferable to Trump but if he doesn't deliver big, tangible benefits to the working class, he'll be out in 1 term.

The low hanging fruit here is infrastructure. Trump talked a good game on it but never delivered. American infrastructure is in a terrible state after decades of underfunding. $1tn in infrastructure investment would provide a huge boost to the economy and especially working class jobs. He'd bring the working class back into the Democratic fold and guarantee a huge win in 4 years. It's a no-brainer but Trump couldn't get it done.