Trump ...

I don't get that he doesn't like the Americans. I do get (and understand) however that he doesn't like Trump or Hegseth.

As for strategy, I guess we'll find out.
 
Lammy strikes again!

This morning declares Cyprus is part of NATO to justify inaction on protecting the country and our bases. Only problem is, they aren’t.

These morons are basing foreign policy and defence decisions on incorrect information. Perhaps he should stick to Mastermind, then again perhaps not.

God help us all.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Lammy strikes again!

This morning declares Cyprus is part of NATO to justify inaction on protecting the country and our bases. Only problem is, they aren’t.

These morons are basing foreign policy and defence decisions on incorrect information. Perhaps he should stick to Mastermind, then again perhaps not.

God help us all.
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I have no intention in getting involved in the rights or wrongs of what is happening in this world debate on here, but have been reading what has been said.
You have never changed have you, your myopic bigoted views of the Labour movement clouds your judgment on actual facts.

True, Cyprus is not an independent member country of NATO but Northern Cyprus (Turkish) is totally aligned and is ENTIRELY dependant on Turkey for political, economic and MILITARY support on Cyprus.
  • Total Dependence: The TRNC relies on Turkey for military protection (following the 1974 intervention), financial aid, and essential resources like water.
  • Political Alignment: The TRNC's leadership frequently aligns with Ankara on a "two-state solution" for the island, although some segments of the population may hold different views.
  • International Status: Turkey is the only country that recognizes the TRNC, which is regarded by most of the international community as a state under Turkish occupation.
  • Cultural & Economic Bonds: The TRNC shares deep cultural, linguistic, and historical ties with Turkey, and its economy is integrated with the Turkish mainland.
The southern Greek part of Cyprus is exactly the same, totally dependant on Greece and aligned on all the same factors as the North with Turkey.
  • Foreign Policy & Defense: Greece and Cyprus jointly coordinate their European and foreign policies, cooperating closely in the Eastern Mediterranean.
  • Military Cooperation: Greece maintains a permanent military presence in Cyprus, known as the Hellenic Force in Cyprus (ELDYK). Recently, Greece has bolstered its military presence in Cyprus for defense.
  • Shared Identity: The majority of the population in the Republic of Cyprus is Greek-Cypriot, sharing a common culture, language, and religion with Greece.
Now forgive me if I am wrong but didn't both Greece and Turkey become members of NATO in 1952, therefore Cyprus is also part of Nato's umbrella because of their allegiance and dependence on Greece and Turkey.

It is like saying Gibraltar, the Channel Islands or even the Isle of Man have no status with NATO because they are British Crown Dependencies, which like your comments over this are preposterous, it is another tory and right wing media attempt to cloud the real issues of the legally of trumps actions with nonsensical whataboutery.
 
St. Columb Major said:
I have no intention in getting involved in the rights or wrongs of what is happening in this world debate on here, but have been reading what has been said.
You have never changed have you, your myopic bigoted views of the Labour movement clouds your judgment on actual facts.

True, Cyprus is not an independent member country of NATO but Northern Cyprus (Turkish) is totally aligned and is ENTIRELY dependant on Turkey for political, economic and MILITARY support on Cyprus.
  • Total Dependence: The TRNC relies on Turkey for military protection (following the 1974 intervention), financial aid, and essential resources like water.
  • Political Alignment: The TRNC's leadership frequently aligns with Ankara on a "two-state solution" for the island, although some segments of the population may hold different views.
  • International Status: Turkey is the only country that recognizes the TRNC, which is regarded by most of the international community as a state under Turkish occupation.
  • Cultural & Economic Bonds: The TRNC shares deep cultural, linguistic, and historical ties with Turkey, and its economy is integrated with the Turkish mainland.
The southern Greek part of Cyprus is exactly the same, totally dependant on Greece and aligned on all the same factors as the North with Turkey.
  • Foreign Policy & Defense: Greece and Cyprus jointly coordinate their European and foreign policies, cooperating closely in the Eastern Mediterranean.
  • Military Cooperation: Greece maintains a permanent military presence in Cyprus, known as the Hellenic Force in Cyprus (ELDYK). Recently, Greece has bolstered its military presence in Cyprus for defense.
  • Shared Identity: The majority of the population in the Republic of Cyprus is Greek-Cypriot, sharing a common culture, language, and religion with Greece.
Now forgive me if I am wrong but didn't both Greece and Turkey become members of NATO in 1952, therefore Cyprus is also part of Nato's umbrella because of their allegiance and dependence on Greece and Turkey.

It is like saying Gibraltar, the Channel Islands or even the Isle of Man have no status with NATO because they are British Crown Dependencies, which like your comments over this are preposterous, it is another tory and right wing media attempt to cloud the real issues of the legally of trumps actions with nonsensical whataboutery.
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Glad your not getting involved StCM...😉 then proceed to give us a fair old account of facts & opinions. Now I'm not on the side of Labour or the Tories on this ongoing conflict....Labour dragging their heels & full of inaction whilst the Tories are all over Labour criticising their every move. Oh n btw it would no doubt be the same if the Tories were in power with Labour doing all the criticism....both of them too busy point scoring whilst British Armed forces and their families are left / were left vulnerable to the increasingly erratic Iranian missile attacks.
 
jocklatic said:
Oh the embarrassment continues....On the BBC News tonight the poor old Defence Secretary John Healey dithering and mumbling when asked "when will HMS Dragon get to Cyprus "..... stuttering all the way through the reply he goes from "it'll be here as soon as" then he mumbles, followed by "it'll be here as soon as we can get it here" more mumbling the finally says " it'll be here within 2 weeks"..... "2 weeks" is the shocked bbc reporters reply....she's obviously as gobsmacked as the rest of us whilst the rest of the world carry on laughing at us, we'll not us but our bungling government. They even interviewed a British resident living in Cyprus who was just scathing of the government saying they felt more supported by the likes of the Greeks & French and said the government needs to step up.
Surely it doesn't get any worse...does it 🤔
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This 'British resident', were they part of the military or an ex pat/immigrant.
In the case of the second category, Consular services are available as opposed to personal protection from the military, that possibly are not financed through their payment of UK taxes.

Sorry I should add, In the case of military personnel and families, I support your comments.
 
St. Columb Major said:
I have no intention in getting involved in the rights or wrongs of what is happening in this world debate on here, but have been reading what has been said.
You have never changed have you, your myopic bigoted views of the Labour movement clouds your judgment on actual facts.

True, Cyprus is not an independent member country of NATO but Northern Cyprus (Turkish) is totally aligned and is ENTIRELY dependant on Turkey for political, economic and MILITARY support on Cyprus.
  • Total Dependence: The TRNC relies on Turkey for military protection (following the 1974 intervention), financial aid, and essential resources like water.
  • Political Alignment: The TRNC's leadership frequently aligns with Ankara on a "two-state solution" for the island, although some segments of the population may hold different views.
  • International Status: Turkey is the only country that recognizes the TRNC, which is regarded by most of the international community as a state under Turkish occupation.
  • Cultural & Economic Bonds: The TRNC shares deep cultural, linguistic, and historical ties with Turkey, and its economy is integrated with the Turkish mainland.
The southern Greek part of Cyprus is exactly the same, totally dependant on Greece and aligned on all the same factors as the North with Turkey.
  • Foreign Policy & Defense: Greece and Cyprus jointly coordinate their European and foreign policies, cooperating closely in the Eastern Mediterranean.
  • Military Cooperation: Greece maintains a permanent military presence in Cyprus, known as the Hellenic Force in Cyprus (ELDYK). Recently, Greece has bolstered its military presence in Cyprus for defense.
  • Shared Identity: The majority of the population in the Republic of Cyprus is Greek-Cypriot, sharing a common culture, language, and religion with Greece.
Now forgive me if I am wrong but didn't both Greece and Turkey become members of NATO in 1952, therefore Cyprus is also part of Nato's umbrella because of their allegiance and dependence on Greece and Turkey.

It is like saying Gibraltar, the Channel Islands or even the Isle of Man have no status with NATO because they are British Crown Dependencies, which like your comments over this are preposterous, it is another tory and right wing media attempt to cloud the real issues of the legally of trumps actions with nonsensical whataboutery.
Click to expand...

A nice history lesson - and I’m not being sarcastic, I like history. It’s a lovely country that I’ve enjoyed immensely when visiting and I’m aware of its past.

However the fact remains it is an independent country and despite what the former Foreign Secretary claimed on several occasions this morning, who quite frankly should have known better, and despite your efforts to somehow twist facts and support him, this independent country is not a member of NATO. Of course it is nice to see Cyprus being supported by other European nations, but the fact remains we have two air bases there and should be the ones providing that protection because we effectively put it at risk. It is a target because of us. When countries such as Greece, Spain and Netherlands - who aren’t renowned for their military prowess and who aren’t military peers (though perhaps they’ve now overtaken us) are having to intervene and step up to the plate, because we are now incapable, it is both shameful and a catastrophic failure of the government. They can deploy ships, we can’t and that is a damning indictment of our military readiness and governments ability to protect the country.

Labour are not solely responsible for the pitiful state of our armed forces, though they are as culpable as the Conservatives. However they are in charge again and have done absolutely nothing to improve the situation, in fact they’ve made it worse. The impending war was known about for weeks, if not months. The bases were always going to be targets regardless of the level of our participation or otherwise. The most important asset to counter that should have been deployed weeks ago. Yet the Destroyer is still sat in Portsmouth dock. It’s a gross failure of leadership and willingness of this government shower to protect British assets, service personnel and citizens. Let alone the fury and anger it’s caused to our regional Gulf partners and the long term economic damage that will cause. It’s unforgivable and demonstrates what happens when you have idiotic people, playing student politics, in charge.

Our bases, service personnel and citizens are under attack. We still haven’t launched a Destroyer and still won’t take the most decisive action to defend ourselves. This dithering and delay by the moron holding the title of PM is not acceptable, though it’s becoming increasingly clear he is not effectively in charge. The Defence Secretary has proven ineffective. He’s based his career on keeping his mouth shut but now he’s in the spotlight and is having to open it, he proved yesterday how out of his depth he is. Quite frankly we need and deserve better than this clown show in these difficult geopolitical times.
 
jocklatic said:
Glad your not getting involved StCM...😉 then proceed to give us a fair old account of facts & opinions. Now I'm not on the side of Labour or the Tories on this ongoing conflict....Labour dragging their heels & full of inaction whilst the Tories are all over Labour criticising their every move. Oh n btw it would no doubt be the same if the Tories were in power with Labour doing all the criticism....both of them too busy point scoring whilst British Armed forces and their families are left / were left vulnerable to the increasingly erratic Iranian missile attacks.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, but if the Conservatives were in charge they would be more robust and far better at defending the country than Labour are currently doing in this situation.
 
Made in Wigan said:
I tend to agree, but if the Conservatives were in charge they would be more robust and far better at defending the country than Labour are currently doing in this situation.
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Oh I don't know....both are far too busy politically point scoring plus it's far easier to criticise when in opposition. Either way tho we have been shown up as a total embarrassment and a second rate country in the Nato alliance...how we have fallen when we were considered one of the main players. Not to mention we're only going to get worse as our much heralded Defence spending increase doesn't come into fruition till 2027
 
jocklatic said:
Oh I don't know....both are far too busy politically point scoring plus it's far easier to criticise when in opposition. Either way tho we have been shown up as a total embarrassment and a second rate country in the Nato alliance...how we have fallen when we were considered one of the main players. Not to mention we're only going to get worse as our much heralded Defence spending increase doesn't come into fruition till 2027
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Agree with the point scoring but when push comes to shove they would put the national interests first in times like this.

As I feared and as I predicted the Cypriot government is absolutely fuming about our lack of willingness and or ability to protect the air bases and thus the island. They are demanding discussions about the future of the air bases, or certainly our continued ownership of then, citing the Chagos surrender as some form of precedent. This was always likely to be the case and quite frankly who can blame them. This government is so myopic it’s incredible, too busy virtue signalling and trying to protect their voter base than actually concentrating on what they need to do and seeing the strategic pictures in the foreign policy world. These idiots have no business in office. These are vitally important strategic bases so to lose them because of their incompetence would be unforgivable. The cynic in me suggests this was intended all along by the dynamic duo of Starmer & Harmer to give away more important territory. What’s next the Falklands?

In other news a union has claimed the reason the Destroyer is still in dock and not deployed is because the dock only operates 9-5 weekdays so necessary maintenance and loading can’t take place quick enough. Even when we are all but at war and under missile attack in the Med. This is how far this country has fallen and for once I’m genuinely lost for words.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Agree with the point scoring but when push comes to shove they would put the national interests first in times like this.

As I feared and as I predicted the Cypriot government is absolutely fuming about our lack of willingness and or ability to protect the air bases and thus the island. They are demanding discussions about the future of the air bases, or certainly our continued ownership of then, citing the Chagos surrender as some form of precedent. This was always likely to be the case and quite frankly who can blame them. This government is so myopic it’s incredible, too busy virtue signalling and trying to protect their voter base than actually concentrating on what they need to do and seeing the strategic pictures in the foreign policy world. These idiots have no business in office. These are vitally important strategic bases so to lose them because of their incompetence would be unforgivable. The cynic in me suggests this was intended all along by the dynamic duo of Starmer & Harmer to give away more important territory. What’s next the Falklands?

In other news a union has claimed the reason the Destroyer is still in dock and not deployed is because the dock only operates 9-5 weekdays so necessary maintenance and loading can’t take place quick enough. Even when we are all but at war and under missile attack in the Med. This is how far this country has fallen and for once I’m genuinely lost for words.
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They are demanding discussions about the future of the air bases, or certainly our continued ownership of then, citing the Chagos surrender as some form of precedent...... If this is true then it's absolutely damming and should be subject to a debate in the HoC

Not to mention this shit....

  • Spending Drop: The UK has fallen from 3rd in 2021 to 12th in 2025 for GDP spending percentage, putting it in the "middle of the pack".
 
jocklatic said:
They are demanding discussions about the future of the air bases, or certainly our continued ownership of then, citing the Chagos surrender as some form of precedent...... If this is true then it's absolutely damming and should be subject to a debate in the HoC

Not to mention this shit....

  • Spending Drop: The UK has fallen from 3rd in 2021 to 12th in 2025 for GDP spending percentage, putting it in the "middle of the pack".
Click to expand...

It is unfortunately true. You can’t really blame them to be fair, if we have bases there we our obligated to provide defence for them and thus the island.

The spending drop will be worse than those figures suggest as we know with this country very little of it will go on the frontline be that troops or equipment/assets for them to use.
 
Deary me. I have just seen Starmers tic toc production (now deleted I believe) showing some of our F35s and helicopters in an attempt to project UK military power. Obviously copying the Americans.

Unfortunately the soundtrack used is the guitar riff from ‘Money for nothing’. If ever a song title summed up this Labour government and its attitude toward pissing money up a wall and giving it away it would be this. What an error. Who the hell authorised using this song?
 
Made in Wigan said:
Deary me. I have just seen Starmers tic toc production (now deleted I believe) showing some of our F35s and helicopters in an attempt to project UK military power. Obviously copying the Americans.

Unfortunately the soundtrack used is the guitar riff from ‘Money for nothing’. If ever a song title summed up this Labour government and its attitude toward pissing money up a wall and giving it away it would be this. What an error. Who the hell authorised using this song?
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You mean this one .....

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029971198860206330
 
jocklatic said:
You mean this one .....

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029971198860206330
Click to expand...

Aye that’s the one 😂

Honestly if you’d asked the Conservatives or Reform to choose a band and song to encapsulate Labour they wouldn’t have picked anything different.

‘Right lads, what band best describes the state of the country under Labour! ‘

“Dire Straits”

‘Excellent, now which song best describes Labours approach to welfare spending?’

“Money for nothing”

😂😂😂. Honestly whoever came up with this then signed it off deserves an award.
 
I understand HMS Dragon was scheduled to go to the far north, because of the North West Passage situation (the news storm last month).
Hence the delay in kitting it out for warmer and war locations.

What was that Ben Wallace said about hollowing out our military.
 
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