Tottenham v RB Leipzig Champions League first leg. | Page 17 | Vital Football

Tottenham v RB Leipzig Champions League first leg.

Harry-Kari said:
6 of those points came from our last two games where in both instances we were lucky not to be 2 or 3 goals down after 30 minutes and in the City game on another day they should have scored 6....much as I enjoyed the wins, we had huge slices of luck before, belatedly, he let the team off the leash at the end of both games and took control but still in the Villa game needed the luck of a defender missing a straightforward clearance T-shirt than a well crafted move to score the winner.

My point is he demonstrates at the end of most games now that the lads can play slick attacking pressure football, it’s just the poorly organised defensive set up for most of the game that cedes control without a fight....if he wants to defend do it properly with a 541 or a 4141 or whatever and play that higher up the pitch....stop trying to play Aurier (at all preferably) as an attacking option....don’t try to use Alli as a striker because he can’t play there...let Moura be the 1 and don’t ask him to come back and defend so that he can save his energy for chasing on to through balls which could be played if we competed higher up the pitch...use his best defender Tanga...use the pace of Sess to give LoCo a wide outlet instead of Aurier...lots of things he can do even down to playing a youngster or two in place of players who need rest.

I know he has a difficult job, and perhaps his ego won’t accept that he can’t get us a top 4 finish and therefore he puts his faith in older players even though we know they are not the best, and older defensive formations, but a good manager would recognise where the failings are in his approach and change things accordingly....we used to say the same things about Poch.

Its fine to say that we have accumulated a lot of points and on paper we are the form team, but from my perspective we have had a great deal of luck and if the tactics don’t change on Saturday I think our luck will well and truly run out....I hope not.
Click to expand...


Spot on - I'm afraid to say! :thumbup::clap:
 
I knew we would eventually see the real Mourinho we all know too well, but I'm not anti or pro the guy. I'm trying to stay neutral for the good of the team. However, I am yet to see any tactical approach from the guy that isnt 7 years out of date. The Pep's and Klopp's have all adapted to deal with the Mourinho way, which I think is why Mourinho has struggled to find the same success he is used to. He needs to adapt and fast because he really does have a lot at risk.

I still think he was a terrible choice of manager for a number of reasons but he does deserve time to work with the team, which includes next season at least.
 
Just watched the game again. It was noticeable how often we were just one touch or a foot away from something positive. It was also good to remember how much on top we were for the last thirty ish mins. How ndom and lamela along with gio and winksy were pushing us forward. Winksy was busier than I remembered last night.
also still so clear how often Serge was out of position and gave the ball away....Sanchez covered him really well. Forgetting what Leipzig could have done in the first half, clearly in the second half we were in control, had good opportunities to equalise and if we carry the 2nd half into Saturday and other games....we will do ok, with or without strikers.
 
total spurs said:
Just watched the game again. It was noticeable how often we were just one touch or a foot away from something positive. It was also good to remember how much on top we were for the last thirty ish mins. How ndom and lamela along with gio and winksy were pushing us forward. Winksy was busier than I remembered last night.
also still so clear how often Serge was out of position and gave the ball away....Sanchez covered him really well. Forgetting what Leipzig could have done in the first half, clearly in the second half we were in control, had good opportunities to equalise and if we carry the 2nd half into Saturday and other games....we will do ok, with or without strikers.
Click to expand...

If I can add another observation to the above...

The way we started 1st half (defend mode, relinquishing half the pitch) Dele and Moura were just chasing shadows (if you can call it press mode). So by the time (2nd half) we decided to make changes, Dele was already off and Moura was shattered.

Sure if we can take the latter part of that game in to our future games, now that surely Jose will have seen what they are capable of, then we can build on it and attain some consistency.
 
Harry-Kari said:
6 of those points came from our last two games where in both instances we were lucky not to be 2 or 3 goals down after 30 minutes and in the City game on another day they should have scored 6....much as I enjoyed the wins, we had huge slices of luck before, belatedly, he let the team off the leash at the end of both games and took control but still in the Villa game needed the luck of a defender missing a straightforward clearance T-shirt than a well crafted move to score the winner.

My point is he demonstrates at the end of most games now that the lads can play slick attacking pressure football, it’s just the poorly organised defensive set up for most of the game that cedes control without a fight....if he wants to defend do it properly with a 541 or a 4141 or whatever and play that higher up the pitch....stop trying to play Aurier (at all preferably) as an attacking option....don’t try to use Alli as a striker because he can’t play there...let Moura be the 1 and don’t ask him to come back and defend so that he can save his energy for chasing on to through balls which could be played if we competed higher up the pitch...use his best defender Tanga...use the pace of Sess to give LoCo a wide outlet instead of Aurier...lots of things he can do even down to playing a youngster or two in place of players who need rest.

I know he has a difficult job, and perhaps his ego won’t accept that he can’t get us a top 4 finish and therefore he puts his faith in older players even though we know they are not the best, and older defensive formations, but a good manager would recognise where the failings are in his approach and change things accordingly....we used to say the same things about Poch.

Its fine to say that we have accumulated a lot of points and on paper we are the form team, but from my perspective we have had a great deal of luck and if the tactics don’t change on Saturday I think our luck will well and truly run out....I hope not.
Click to expand...

BTW, great point of view and exactly why I challenged others to share how they would solve the problem. We all clearly see the game differently and nothing is right or wrong.

In your argument I would be concerned that we wouldn't play the slick attacking football at the end of games if we set out at the start of games with the intensity and setup that some / most are asking for. If we had Jose 10 pints down at the bar then he'd probably confess that's where he'd ultimately like to be but doesn't have the resources yet to do so. We haven't got 90 mins in us....YET !!!

Bergwijn is the best example of that. If he could have retained his first half intensity for 90 mins then he'd have made the headlines today. Bergwijn was always going to be pushed up top eventually in Jose's head, as what he asked him to do in the first half wasn't sustainable for 90 mins. I'm OK with that as it was also built around others like Ndombele and Lamela playing to their strengths in the latter part of the game as subs.

That's why I'm still not convinced about the "we've been lucky" argument and it will therefore "all come crashing down" theory. It's more the case that we're doing a lot right and Jose has been working overtime to come up with strategies to get this limited group through games.

I have a feeling we'll take Chelsea down at the weekend. If not they'll temporarily get their tails ups and we'll still have overcome them by the middle of May.
 
trustmeiknow1 said:
Jose is a coward. He hides behind excuses and has done for a few years now. When Ben Davies was out he'd have you believe he is a top,top quality left back. Ben is bang average and always has been.

We don't have a striker but he sets us up in a low block 442. No imagination in the first half just fear. We have one of the best ball progressers in world football in ndombele,one of the best talents in Europe last year in Lo Celso,Harry Winks (England's great midfield hope apparently) and the only way he can see fit to use them is one as a sub and the the other 2 covering space 35 yards from their own goal. Dictated by a well coached out outfit made up of mostly players I've never heard of.

From a tactical point of view I can see what he was trying to do but it didn't work and I don't like it. The amount of balls just hoofed up the field. There's no way most of these player enjoy being coached to play this way.
Click to expand...

Excuses like not having any players?

Thats some rose tinted glasses on our players.

Just because you have never heard of a player doesnt mean they are not very good.
 
muttley said:
BTW, great point of view and exactly why I challenged others to share how they would solve the problem. We all clearly see the game differently and nothing is right or wrong.

In your argument I would be concerned that we wouldn't play the slick attacking football at the end of games if we set out at the start of games with the intensity and setup that some / most are asking for. If we had Jose 10 pints down at the bar then he'd probably confess that's where he'd ultimately like to be but doesn't have the resources yet to do so. We haven't got 90 mins in us....YET !!!

Bergwijn is the best example of that. If he could have retained his first half intensity for 90 mins then he'd have made the headlines today. Bergwijn was always going to be pushed up top eventually in Jose's head, as what he asked him to do in the first half wasn't sustainable for 90 mins. I'm OK with that as it was also built around others like Ndombele and Lamela playing to their strengths in the latter part of the game as subs.

That's why I'm still not convinced about the "we've been lucky" argument and it will therefore "all come crashing down" theory. It's more the case that we're doing a lot right and Jose has been working overtime to come up with strategies to get this limited group through games.

I have a feeling we'll take Chelsea down at the weekend. If not they'll temporarily get their tails ups and we'll still have overcome them by the middle of May.
Click to expand...
I like your optimistic views Mutters and I do agree that we have seen improvements in team play but only in te closing stages of games lately. If Jose feels we need to defend until the last third of games then my point is he needs to get it organised properly, and it manifestly hasn’t been the case.

Atletico showed how it should be done against Liverpool who didn’t manage a single shot on goal (so much for the claim that Klopp and Pep have tactics to defeat this type of approach)..in other words defending has to be taken seriously, further up the pitch and a contested MF area.

The way Jose sets up players are isolated and easily overrun by pressing opposition which then drags the back 4 out of position (or in our case a back 3 due to the absent RB) and allows the opposition to rain shots on our goal.

I don’t have a problem if he wants to defend for 60 minutes And then switch to attack for the last 30 but he needs to do it properly. Also when the opposition hit the woodwork, shoot straight at the keeper when it’s easier to score not once but 2 or 3 times per game then that’s my definition of luck.
 
Getting back to the football....I watched the second half last night after doing the first earlier in the day. The intensity was much better although I wouldn't expect 90 minutes of it. Leipzig couldn't do it either.
 
Well then, lets be totally intense for the first half out there and score 3 goals and see if they run out of time before they can score 3 against a tired park the bus team to go through! Pointess parking the bus in the first half really ....
 
Kinygerbils said:
Excuses like not having any players?

Thats some rose tinted glasses on our players.

Just because you have never heard of a player doesnt mean they are not very good.
Click to expand...

He does have players. As for the Leipzig players,yes good but brilliantly coached as a unit was most noticeable to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.