BlueWhite
Vital Squad Member
One miracle, delivered.
Tottenham fans are constantly told their team must win something... but there is a bigger picture that is too frequently overlooked within football
- Thread starter Topspur1
- Start date
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
We may talk on here but it's what the club does that indicates where we are. How many actual firm bids did the club put in ? I know of Grealish of course. He ain't exactly pulling trees up for Villa this season by the way.
Sanchez is our most expensive signing and he is good but not the finished article. How much would we need to spend to get a finished article in the positions we need ? Striker....scary, playmaker....scary , keeper.....probably more than Sanchez, LB....like hens teeth these days.
Sanchez is our most expensive signing and he is good but not the finished article. How much would we need to spend to get a finished article in the positions we need ? Striker....scary, playmaker....scary , keeper.....probably more than Sanchez, LB....like hens teeth these days.
BlueWhite
Vital Squad Member
Honestly haven't kept up with Grealish lately, but assume that if he was the kind of player who'd be making a great impact for us now, I'd have been hard-pressed to avoid hearing about it. He seemed overpriced for a cup player.
Well that says it all.
Real Deal
Alert Team
I bet he regrets not pushing for the move now. His form has dropped massively. He wasn't even that good last season by the way.
10Hoddle
Vital 1st Team Regular
Take from my post what you will.
You're a metaphor for modern society these days. Focusing on the minority.
RichmondSpur
Vital Football Hero
Thanks for the link, I never get tired of watching details from '81, that team played some spectacular football and had so much natural talent. Even with inevitable injuries we had the luxury of having a player as good as Micky Hazard, on the bench to come in and not weaken the team. I remember the citeh boss John Bond saying at the time, he would travel to some distant destination to watch our '81 team play. Yeah great sound from our supporters including 'We'll take good care of you Archibald, Archibald....'. Never get tired of that either.
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Spursex
Alert Team
Or, it's an innate sense of realism and commonsense - Spurs fans more than any other fans I've met understand the impact of the financial chasm that exists between us and our peers.
There are many reasons for that (some would say excuses) but our balance sheet is now a billion, with net debt of around 350 mill - we are (FINALLY) ideally placed to be both a footballing force and a financial force in the PL.
I'm completely optimistic that our future is one where we are regularly competing for Trophies, no matter who's the head coach/manager.
Poch's era may well be coming to a close - only he can decide that and if he decides to stay, he needs to STFU with the ambiguous negative commentary he's allowed himself to place in an attempt to maneuver his availability.
I hope that Levy and the board have made it clear, he is not irreplaceable.
10......I understand what you are saying ,but the paragraph that starts with " once again ,the passionate ones .........."sums up the whole gist of the thread in my opinion .
Do you not think that the opposition manager does exactly the same due diligence or is it assumed that they will just turn up and play exactly the same eleven ,in exactly the same formation with the same formation every week.
It's in these circumstances that the "sing when we're winning brigade "do not accept that we were beaten by the better prepared team on the day .
Some teams are
A) prepared to kick the shit out of anybody , cheat ,dive and adopt any tactic in the dark arts book ,.........which we don't do
whilst others
B) have a whole array of CL experienced talent that are paid a fortune to not expect a game every week ........which we don't have ,either the players or the money
If your paragraph was true , we would all be singing from the same song sheet . IMHO
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
I wouldn't normally focus on a minority, but you initially denied they exist.
"I don't know anybody that does this"
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
Ex, how is our balance sheet £1 billion with net debts of £350 million...is that based upon the theoretical estimate of the value of the new stadium on the credit side? And how will we be a financial force in the epl when our transfer policy will not change ie: self funding from sales?
Spursex
Alert Team
I think alot of fans simply missed this announcement - but it is exactly in line with my expectations and what I've said here many many times over the last 12-24 months - the addition of the financial clarity was in response to ill-informed and speculative nonsensical commentary from sections of the media and I'm told also multiplied and effectively and supposedly misquoted by some social media sources, anyway the key section in the statement is below - but I'd also like to add one further thing; from what I have seen the additional revenues from the new stadium could after three years reach as much as £200 mill a year - yes, 200 mill !!!
That's why we could be in a position in the foreseeable future to compete with anyone; the board, better than anyone understand the impact of commercial sponsorship deals but above all, also know the value of having the 'right' ones - and it's my absolute firm belief that this is well on the way to happening - of course, I have to declare that I know many in the commercial side at Spurs and my judgement may well be coloured by their unbridled optimism in what's happening now and will happen in the near future.
Financial Update
The Club continues to operate on a sensible financial basis in order to take a long-term view for the benefit of current as well as future generations of Tottenham Hotspur fans.
The Club’s investment over recent years in facilities has resulted in total gross tangible assets at 30 June, 2018, in excess of £1bn - facilities which include the Training Centre, the new Players’ Lodge, Percy House, home of the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation, Lilywhite House Club offices, new retail warehouse, new Paxton House Ticket Office and now the new stadium along with the newly-opened Spurs Shop – the largest football club store in Europe - plus other property assets.
These investments have been financed by funds from the Club and bank finance, principally from Bank of America Merrill Lynch International, Goldman Sachs Bank USA and HSBC Bank plc (“Banking Partners”) who have provided a development facility of up to £637m. At 30 June, 2018, the Club had net debt of £366m.
This level of investment by the Club has been made possible by record revenues of £381m and profit from operations before football trading, depreciation, interest, tax and exceptional items of £163m for the year to 30 June, 2018. Trading for the current year will, however, be impacted by the additional costs of Wembley and the delay to the opening of the new stadium.
Working with our Banking Partners and our financial advisor, Rothschild & Co, we shall be converting this development facility, which currently expires in April 2022, into notes with a mixture of debt maturities.
The residual amount of gross debt to be converted or extinguished will depend on a number of factors including several commercial discussions.
In recent months we have secured an extended agreement with Nike up to 2033, one of the longest football club deals in Nike’s history. We have also announced a number of new brand partners including, amongst several others, Audi, IWC Schaffhausen, HPE and EA SPORTS.
Spursex
Alert Team
An addition to the above, when the project is completely finished it could have project finance of up to 500 mill - but knowing what I believe I know could happen, I think it's a red herring for people who don't understand the corporate placing moves the club / Enic will make that will both take some money off the table and to significantly reduce debt.
250-300 mill over 20/25 years is around 20-25 mill a year in repayments - or less (depending on structure and debt rating).
We're in amazing shape, all we have to do now is remain patient.
The naysayers need to understand our current and projected finances before taking any more cheap shots.
250-300 mill over 20/25 years is around 20-25 mill a year in repayments - or less (depending on structure and debt rating).
We're in amazing shape, all we have to do now is remain patient.
The naysayers need to understand our current and projected finances before taking any more cheap shots.
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Spursex
Alert Team
For those that missed it, the statement in full:
Club Statement – New Stadium and Financial Update
26 October 2018|Tottenham Hotspur
New stadium
Since we last provided an update on the progress of the new stadium on 3 September, 2018, we have been working hard with the contractors involved in the critical safety systems.
Key contractors involved in the mechanical, electrical and safety systems are being supported with external resources and closely monitored by our construction manager, Mace.
Chairman Daniel Levy said: “There isn't an hour that goes by when I am not asked when we will be able to stage our first game at our new home.
“I wish I was able to confirm an exact opening date and fixture. However, in light of factors completely outside of our control, contractors missing deadlines and possible future unforeseen issues, we are naturally being cautious in respect of our timetable for our test events and official opening game.
“Whilst we are conscious of the need to keep pressure on our contractors to deliver as soon as possible, we are also acutely aware of how difficult the lack of clarity is for you, our supporters, to plan around games, particularly those at Christmas and New Year.
“In light of the above, and taking into account the restricted availability of manpower over the festive period, we have taken the decision to confirm today that all home games will be played at Wembley Stadium up to and including the game against Wolverhampton Wanderers on 29 December.
“We know the continued delay is a source of immense disappointment to everyone and I can only continue to apologise for this - it is a sentiment felt by all of us.
“We have not stood still whilst work on the critical safety systems has been happening and we have sought to use the time to bring forward future works.
“Our investment has been supported by over £100m investment in transport infrastructure which will see the stadium and the local area served by one of the best public transport networks in the country – facilitating the creation of a new sport, leisure and entertainment destination in London.
“The delay in the stadium opening has made it possible for some track and station improvements to be brought forward due to the fact that previously non-available construction dates have become available for works.
“We have no doubt when open that this stadium will be one of the finest in the world – a leading example of British research and development delivering engineering and technological firsts that will be showcased globally.
“I hope that the end result will be something that will make you proud.
“We shall look to update you again in early December.”
The Club will also be engaging with Wembley National Stadium Ltd and Brent Council regarding attendance capacities at Wembley Stadium for the forthcoming games.
Financial Update
The Club continues to operate on a sensible financial basis in order to take a long-term view for the benefit of current as well as future generations of Tottenham Hotspur fans.
The Club’s investment over recent years in facilities has resulted in total gross tangible assets at 30 June, 2018, in excess of £1bn - facilities which include the Training Centre, the new Players’ Lodge, Percy House, home of the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation, Lilywhite House Club offices, new retail warehouse, new Paxton House Ticket Office and now the new stadium along with the newly-opened Spurs Shop – the largest football club store in Europe - plus other property assets.
These investments have been financed by funds from the Club and bank finance, principally from Bank of America Merrill Lynch International, Goldman Sachs Bank USA and HSBC Bank plc (“Banking Partners”) who have provided a development facility of up to £637m. At 30 June, 2018, the Club had net debt of £366m.
This level of investment by the Club has been made possible by record revenues of £381m and profit from operations before football trading, depreciation, interest, tax and exceptional items of £163m for the year to 30 June, 2018. Trading for the current year will, however, be impacted by the additional costs of Wembley and the delay to the opening of the new stadium.
Working with our Banking Partners and our financial advisor, Rothschild & Co, we shall be converting this development facility, which currently expires in April 2022, into notes with a mixture of debt maturities.
The residual amount of gross debt to be converted or extinguished will depend on a number of factors including several commercial discussions.
In recent months we have secured an extended agreement with Nike up to 2033, one of the longest football club deals in Nike’s history. We have also announced a number of new brand partners including, amongst several others, Audi, IWC Schaffhausen, HPE and EA SPORTS.
Looking forward
Chairman Daniel Levy said: “Our current position in the Premier League, a record start for the Club, is testament to the professionalism and positive approach of Mauricio, his staff and the players. They have made no excuses, focused on their games and made us all proud of this exceptional attitude.
“We also wish to express our gratitude to all the staff at the Club in going over and above to successfully oversee operations at three different venues this season.
“Additionally, we should like to thank our partners, our colleagues at the Premier League, our fellow Premier League clubs, the FA and also Wembley and Brent for hosting us.
“We are experiencing frustrating times - however every now and then someone reminds us of just what we have undertaken and achieved to date – and what this stadium will be like for generations to come – and that keeps us going. Thank you to all who have sent messages of encouragement. It is much appreciated by those involved in this challenging project.
“This is a stadium for another century and a few months’ delay will hopefully soon be forgotten when we proudly return home. Your continued patience, understanding and, above all, support for the First Team is invaluable.
“None of what we have achieved and are looking to achieve would be possible without you, our fans, and your immense loyalty. Thank you.”
A further announcement will be made on ticketing details for our forthcoming home matches in due course.
Club Statement – New Stadium and Financial Update
26 October 2018|Tottenham Hotspur
New stadium
Since we last provided an update on the progress of the new stadium on 3 September, 2018, we have been working hard with the contractors involved in the critical safety systems.
Key contractors involved in the mechanical, electrical and safety systems are being supported with external resources and closely monitored by our construction manager, Mace.
Chairman Daniel Levy said: “There isn't an hour that goes by when I am not asked when we will be able to stage our first game at our new home.
“I wish I was able to confirm an exact opening date and fixture. However, in light of factors completely outside of our control, contractors missing deadlines and possible future unforeseen issues, we are naturally being cautious in respect of our timetable for our test events and official opening game.
“Whilst we are conscious of the need to keep pressure on our contractors to deliver as soon as possible, we are also acutely aware of how difficult the lack of clarity is for you, our supporters, to plan around games, particularly those at Christmas and New Year.
“In light of the above, and taking into account the restricted availability of manpower over the festive period, we have taken the decision to confirm today that all home games will be played at Wembley Stadium up to and including the game against Wolverhampton Wanderers on 29 December.
“We know the continued delay is a source of immense disappointment to everyone and I can only continue to apologise for this - it is a sentiment felt by all of us.
“We have not stood still whilst work on the critical safety systems has been happening and we have sought to use the time to bring forward future works.
“Our investment has been supported by over £100m investment in transport infrastructure which will see the stadium and the local area served by one of the best public transport networks in the country – facilitating the creation of a new sport, leisure and entertainment destination in London.
“The delay in the stadium opening has made it possible for some track and station improvements to be brought forward due to the fact that previously non-available construction dates have become available for works.
“We have no doubt when open that this stadium will be one of the finest in the world – a leading example of British research and development delivering engineering and technological firsts that will be showcased globally.
“I hope that the end result will be something that will make you proud.
“We shall look to update you again in early December.”
The Club will also be engaging with Wembley National Stadium Ltd and Brent Council regarding attendance capacities at Wembley Stadium for the forthcoming games.
Financial Update
The Club continues to operate on a sensible financial basis in order to take a long-term view for the benefit of current as well as future generations of Tottenham Hotspur fans.
The Club’s investment over recent years in facilities has resulted in total gross tangible assets at 30 June, 2018, in excess of £1bn - facilities which include the Training Centre, the new Players’ Lodge, Percy House, home of the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation, Lilywhite House Club offices, new retail warehouse, new Paxton House Ticket Office and now the new stadium along with the newly-opened Spurs Shop – the largest football club store in Europe - plus other property assets.
These investments have been financed by funds from the Club and bank finance, principally from Bank of America Merrill Lynch International, Goldman Sachs Bank USA and HSBC Bank plc (“Banking Partners”) who have provided a development facility of up to £637m. At 30 June, 2018, the Club had net debt of £366m.
This level of investment by the Club has been made possible by record revenues of £381m and profit from operations before football trading, depreciation, interest, tax and exceptional items of £163m for the year to 30 June, 2018. Trading for the current year will, however, be impacted by the additional costs of Wembley and the delay to the opening of the new stadium.
Working with our Banking Partners and our financial advisor, Rothschild & Co, we shall be converting this development facility, which currently expires in April 2022, into notes with a mixture of debt maturities.
The residual amount of gross debt to be converted or extinguished will depend on a number of factors including several commercial discussions.
In recent months we have secured an extended agreement with Nike up to 2033, one of the longest football club deals in Nike’s history. We have also announced a number of new brand partners including, amongst several others, Audi, IWC Schaffhausen, HPE and EA SPORTS.
Looking forward
Chairman Daniel Levy said: “Our current position in the Premier League, a record start for the Club, is testament to the professionalism and positive approach of Mauricio, his staff and the players. They have made no excuses, focused on their games and made us all proud of this exceptional attitude.
“We also wish to express our gratitude to all the staff at the Club in going over and above to successfully oversee operations at three different venues this season.
“Additionally, we should like to thank our partners, our colleagues at the Premier League, our fellow Premier League clubs, the FA and also Wembley and Brent for hosting us.
“We are experiencing frustrating times - however every now and then someone reminds us of just what we have undertaken and achieved to date – and what this stadium will be like for generations to come – and that keeps us going. Thank you to all who have sent messages of encouragement. It is much appreciated by those involved in this challenging project.
“This is a stadium for another century and a few months’ delay will hopefully soon be forgotten when we proudly return home. Your continued patience, understanding and, above all, support for the First Team is invaluable.
“None of what we have achieved and are looking to achieve would be possible without you, our fans, and your immense loyalty. Thank you.”
A further announcement will be made on ticketing details for our forthcoming home matches in due course.
Wow read through the entire thread and have to say I have no idea what to add!
Guess I will hit on a couple things.:
-I support Spurs 100%. And I believe everyone on this site does as well and we all want nothing but the best for our team. The fun bit is we all have much different thoughts on how to get there...that is part of the fun.
-I love it when we win and am pissed when we lose. (and like everyone else, I am critical and like providing my feedback, both positive and negative, and the conversation that ensues.
-I think someone mentioned that the naysayers only come out when we are playing bad and are mysteriously non-existent when we are playing well. This may be true for some, but remember a ton of us on this forum are from all over the world which means the games come on at wildly different times. Hell most of the mid-week matches i am at work and trying to follow along on this forum on my crap work computer.
Guess I will hit on a couple things.:
-I support Spurs 100%. And I believe everyone on this site does as well and we all want nothing but the best for our team. The fun bit is we all have much different thoughts on how to get there...that is part of the fun.
-I love it when we win and am pissed when we lose. (and like everyone else, I am critical and like providing my feedback, both positive and negative, and the conversation that ensues.
-I think someone mentioned that the naysayers only come out when we are playing bad and are mysteriously non-existent when we are playing well. This may be true for some, but remember a ton of us on this forum are from all over the world which means the games come on at wildly different times. Hell most of the mid-week matches i am at work and trying to follow along on this forum on my crap work computer.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
Of course, I forgot sometimes it's not convenient to have a dig. I will remember that next time we win and the doomsters disappear. A simple explanation , why couldn't I see that.
Spursex
Alert Team
To be honest, I'm amazed you get any access to here at all and it's not blocked by your security!!
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
Thanks for that EX.....it seems that a large part of the credit side of the balance sheet is in “tangible assets” which seem to be largely related to our training facilities and the new stadium, so how are these valued...is it just the value of the land they are built upon or projected income streams they could generate or is it just an accountant’s guesstimate to bulk up the balance sheet?
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
I don’t think the so called naysayers all disappear when we win, they just give praise when it is earned...it’s called balance.
Spursex
Alert Team
Just the value of the land/Buildings.
You can't bulk a balance sheet with projected revenue - if you could, corporate accounts would be an absolute nonsense!! - Although if listed t can partially equate to a PE valuation.
However, if I was buying the business, I would take it into account to probably arrive at an EV (Enterprise Value).
Our balance sheet is solid and based on strong assets, it was one of the things that impressed me when I saw the Rothschild Presentations.
If Enic Sold today, I suspect they'd be looking at a price between 1.5 and 2 billion.
