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Tonights Championship games

........ but have no place managing a football club.

Would a manager who was very successful at a decent amateur standard be classed a donkey if he went to semi-pro level, and then failed?

Or a top semi-pro manager going full time?

With his record in Leagues 1 & 2, Cook's no donkey. Whether he's good enough for this standard, well, he was (just) last season .................... and (rightly or wrongly) he's been given a chance to show he is again.

He's certainly a stubborn bugger, and there's no doubt, he's probably too loyal to certain players.......... who in turn, have often let him down.

I agree that he probably should have been released by now ...... but he hasn't been ......... so, like TB suggested, I think the team deserve a little more support and belief from the fans rather than just considering that we're already down.
 
Would a manager who was very successful at a decent amateur standard be classed a donkey if he went to semi-pro level, and then failed?

Or a top semi-pro manager going full time?

With his record in Leagues 1 & 2, Cook's no donkey. Whether he's good enough for this standard, well, he was (just) last season .................... and (rightly or wrongly) he's been given a chance to show he is again.

He's certainly a stubborn bugger, and there's no doubt, he's probably too loyal to certain players.......... who in turn, have often let him down.

I agree that he probably should have been released by now ...... but he hasn't been ......... so, like TB suggested, I think the team deserve a little more support and belief from the fans rather than just considering that we're already down.

Geez, I wouldn’t want you on my defence team if I was ever in trouble.

You’ve outlined, in part, why he should have been sacked. Are you suggesting the team require support because he’s so inept? Belief/faith should not be blind. If we are being objective then there is nothing to suggest the team will stay up whilst managed by this donkey - zero point in pretending otherwise.

As for your comparison then at this level he is indeed a donkey - and it’s the level he currently needs assessing at.
 
Geez, I wouldn’t want you on my defence team if I was ever in trouble...........

Are you related to one of our (many) recent strikers who have struggled to understand exactly where the goals are? You seem to have a problem with your aim.

This started from your comment that we were already relegated. My response was with regard to the backbone/belief/support of our fanbase.

We have a team. We have a Manager (who doesn't look like being sacked any time soon .......regardless of whether or not he deserves to be). Why wouldn't we as fans support them to the best of our ability?
 
This started from your comment that we were already relegated. My response was with regard to the backbone/belief/support of our fanbase.

We have a team. We have a Manager (who doesn't look like being sacked any time soon .......regardless of whether or not he deserves to be). Why wouldn't we as fans support them to the best of our ability?

And my point was folk need to face reality and accept we are relegated as it seems the chairman has been swayed by football manager and thinks we’ll be fine so won’t sack the clown. People turning up are supporting the team, unless you have exclusivity on how you’d define that term?

You seem to have a problem with your aim.

You sound like the wife when she was cleaning the bathroom the other night.
 
.......People turning up are supporting the team, unless you have exclusivity on how you’d define that term?

Turning up, thinking we're already down is a message which will easily carry across to the players. Great !

Regardless, the fact that folk think we're already down, when quite clearly, there's still an awful lot to be fought and played for seems a little defeatist ......... and was was the real gist of my initial point.
 
My initial post was simply that the situation is what it is, we are in a relegation spot, we have a manager that is going nowhere and yet we have a team prepared to fight for its survival, but we have far to many defeatist quotes going about.

There are 45 points up for grabs and at least three teams above us that are within touching distance. Squabbling amongst ourselves and blaming the manager for all the ills that have befallen us is counter productive.

Where is that siege mentality that kept us together in the Premier League years.

We are "little Wigan" and we are capable of beating the odds, if we all stick together and get behind the team and manager.

I know there are problems with the manager, I'm not blind or daft, but continually washing our dirty linen in public and blaming all and sundry will not change the situation, solidarity will. There will be plenty of time at the end of the season to air any conflicting views and I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to listen at that time, but for now lets stop banging our heads against the wall and pull together.
 
Months ago. When we failed to sack him. No point burying ones head in the sand.

I don't see anyone burying their head in the sand.

I am a realist.

We have problems and I don't see that admitting defeat when there are still 15 games to go and only two wins away from safety is going to help make the situation any better.

I didn't see you as a person who admits defeat so easily, perhaps I was wrong about you.
 
I think we need at least another 17 points from our last 14 games(which is definitely achievable)to have any sort of chance of survival,but even that might not be enough.This league is so unpredictable though,so who knows,it may take a few more or less,it's impossible to know for sure.
Cook and the players have got to be positive,believe and fight for every second of every game and the fans will be behind the club if they see that.There has been evidence of this recently in the 2nd halfs v Sheff Wed and PNE,the fight was there at Leeds and against Boro they were all on show.(Just was ruined by the incompetent ref).The key is to do this on a more consistent basis,not just sparingly.(But according to Cook we are foolish to hope for this:I would say that he is the foolish one saying that,as it's his job to strive and find the solutions to this).
We have taken 10 points from the last 7 games though,so we are doing some things right.IF we can replicate that for the final 14 games,we will get to 50 points which IMO will give us a good chance of survival.
It's going to be extremely difficult to stay up,but we are definitely still alive and still have half a chance IMO.
 
Turning up, thinking we're already down is a message which will easily carry across to the players. Great !

Regardless, the fact that folk think we're already down, when quite clearly, there's still an awful lot to be fought and played for seems a little defeatist ......... and was was the real gist of my initial point.

It’s called realism Moonay. The manager is out of his depth, the chairman won’t sack him, so the result is therefore a foregone conclusion.
 
Where is that siege mentality that kept us together in the Premier League years.

Completely different. We were always massive underdogs then and exceeding expectations. We also had decent managers. Now we are under performing with a piss poor manager and an ineffective chairman who won’t intervene to improve the odds.

didn't see you as a person who admits defeat so easily, perhaps I was wrong about you.

It’s said there are five stages of grief. I’m at 5 - acceptance. I think you’re between 1-3.
 
Aye. As Mark Francois might say, "not a man for the trenches".😇

What an absolute crap analogy...'not a man for the trenches'...ffs, its hardly life n death, altho Bill Shankly may beg to differ ( 'some people think football is a matter of life & death - I can assure them it is much more serious than that')

We are talking about a manager who is way, way out of his depth, who has been given countless credit from fans for his previous successes but has now blown the said credit due to totally inept performances, square pegs in round holes, slagging off of fans, dwindling crowds, unbelievable substitutions & team selections to name but a few. Yet you try to liken it to a stint in the trenches & anyone not agreeing with you is waving the white flag in said trenches......
 
Oh dear. Jock. Bless.

Re-read what I've written. Please.

Thinking the manager should have been released from his post, whilst at the same time, believing that we're far from down yet are two separate, independent views.

(PS. Yes, I know the above is condescending........ I thought it was deserved).
 
from afar things don’t look good but he is the manager and needs to see it through it’s been done to death coyle rosler caldwell and the Man U bloke all sacked and where has that got us. Up here Gerrard has actually a worse record than previous managers but won’t get sacked rightly or wrongly and the same should happen with Cook .
 
Oh dear. Jock. Bless.

Re-read what I've written. Please.

Thinking the manager should have been released from his post, whilst at the same time, believing that we're far from down yet are two separate, independent views.

(PS. Yes, I know the above is condescending........ I thought it was deserved).

So in ur 'condescending'....at which point do you see the relevance of ' not a man for the trenches'....
In your independent view ...where's that acceptable!!

Oh dear....Moonay... Awe bless!!
 
So in ur 'condescending'....at which point do you see the relevance of ' not a man for the trenches'....
In your independent view ...where's that acceptable!!

Oh dear....Moonay... Awe bless!!
I'm sorry Jock, but I don't really understand your response.

Regardless, the "trenches" comment related to the bollox spouted by Mr Francois, who in turn was referenced due to the "stiff upper lip" requirement re keeping on fighting in the face of adversity.

Not a difficult thread of logic to follow.

We may well be relegated this season. However, those who already think we are seem to be missing some of what Mr Francois thinks should flow through the veins of all of us in this country.

It was tongue in cheek.
;)
 
I'm sorry Jock, but I don't really understand your response.

Regardless, the "trenches" comment related to the bollox spouted by Mr Francois, who in turn was referenced due to the "stiff upper lip" requirement re keeping on fighting in the face of adversity.

Not a difficult thread of logic to follow.

We may well be relegated this season. However, those who already think we are seem to be missing some of what Mr Francois thinks should flow through the veins of all of us in this country.

It was tongue in cheek.
;)


Not a difficult thread of logic to follow -
So how come you can't follow it then - the part u put re the trenches was utter bollocks, hence my reply that it isn't acceptable regardless if you said it 'tongue in cheek'.
Funny how when folk are pulled up on stuff they revert to the ' was only said tongue in cheek' or 'was only said in jest' or the classic 'banter'.
By all means you back this clown of a manager, by all means think that the relegation isn't inevitable but if people have other opinions then that's there prerogative...but it's hardly 'raising the white flag in the trenches'.

BTW...I hope u are right n we do survive this impending relegation & I will as I've said previous, eat a large portion of humble pie & ask for second helpings but I still won't want this man at our club next season....😉
 
We’ve been a fixture in the bottom three for most of the season. Something exceptional will need to happen for that to change. We are one poor set of results away from needing a 6+ point turnaround just to get on equal terms.

It means the weekend game against Cardiff cannot be a write-off. Even a draw would be mildly disappointing. As the games click down the more urgent it is we make our move.