Tonight...
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SE1_Gills
Vital 1st Team Regular
Agree with that.
JET isn't fit to lace Iffy's boots.
Back in the "good old days" when we had a decent chance of a giant killing the team had a different mindset- nasty, aggressive, full of the type of player who would jump in front of a double decker bus to win a header.
I've said this on twitter- I think we are missing an old school centre back, someone who has been there and done it.
An aggressive ball winning midfielder- Think Dave Martin.
A proper target man who is difficult to play against.
The gulf between us and Spurs is clear, but regardless, we need to toughen and grow up asap.
jogills
Vital Football Hero
I'd say that Steve's analysis is basically sound. It was a disappointing night in the end but not for lack of effort. The striking thing was that the game served to highlight the deficiencies, which we display in League One, and the punishment was more severe. I'd hope that the lesson was so well learnt that it becomes easier for Edinburgh to drill the message into his team.
I'm not so sure about all this real men stuff and using strength to make up the difference. Modern footballers are better conditioned and the top ones are bigger and stronger specimens. Look at Edinburgh's comments where he states that
"I think we could have been better and braver with the ball, but that?s easy to say from the sidelines. I think the big thing for us tonight was the power and physicality of Tottenham, that caught us by surprise and we were a bit frantic with the ball. We turned over possession quite a lot and were often on the back-foot."
On a positive note Wagstaffe looked fit and up for the challenge.
I'm not so sure about all this real men stuff and using strength to make up the difference. Modern footballers are better conditioned and the top ones are bigger and stronger specimens. Look at Edinburgh's comments where he states that
"I think we could have been better and braver with the ball, but that?s easy to say from the sidelines. I think the big thing for us tonight was the power and physicality of Tottenham, that caught us by surprise and we were a bit frantic with the ball. We turned over possession quite a lot and were often on the back-foot."
On a positive note Wagstaffe looked fit and up for the challenge.
Captainreblue
Vital 1st Team Regular
Until we sort out our lack of organisation and shape when we haven't got the ball we will continually be exposed by opposition.Scunthorpe proved you don't have to be world class to batter us, as have most opposition something sadly proved by our lack of clean sheets, something that JED and the players seem incapable of curing.
Last night Spurs exposed our frailties without the ball, but more worryingly League 1 teams without the quality players Spurs had last night have done it to.
As for our lack of courage with the ball last night, again something that hasn't been in evidence in the league this season.So I'd say that last night just reflected our league performances and we got a similar result.
Last night Spurs exposed our frailties without the ball, but more worryingly League 1 teams without the quality players Spurs had last night have done it to.
As for our lack of courage with the ball last night, again something that hasn't been in evidence in the league this season.So I'd say that last night just reflected our league performances and we got a similar result.
I wouldn't have been posting about the game if I hadn't gone. If my comments were only based on radio/TV coverage then I would have said so.
I think you're being harsh on Janssen, he is exactly the type of striker Gills are lacking - wins the ball against the competing defender, holds it up, back to goal (as you say) and makes runs into the right areas. We haven't got anyone that can do that. Yes his finishing was a bit off and I think Nelson saved a couple from him and Oshilaja cleared one off the line. He wasn't silky smooth, no, but that's not what he's in the team for, they have plenty of skilful attacking midfielders for that.
I quote:
"surely what Eriksen, Jansen Andy own players did last night is more relevant to analysis of last night's match than just talking up what level apes play at and how much they earn?"
Perhaps this was Autocorrect, but if not then calling them apes is a bit low.
I don't think I've ever commented on what they earn, I was highlighting the gulf in quality and resources between the 3rd placed Premier League and 9th placed League 1 teams last season. Yes Eriksen, Lamela etc were great on the night but that was obvious and already mentioned many times by others.
My other comments were aimed at those continually calling the Spurs side last night a reserve team because 2 or 3 youngsters made their debuts and they didn't recognise some of the names. It's a squad game now and hardly any teams pick the same 11 players for every match.
This competition will be Spurs' lowest priority and is mainly used for giving fringe players and youngsters an opportunity alongside 4 or 5 more established starters.
SteveTreacle
Vital Football Hero
Maybe I was harsh on Jansen, but I thought he was technically miles behind a lot of their other players and I just thought that he was dealt with quite well by League One defenders and at stages resorted to backing in to them as well as diving. He did force a couple of saves, but most of his chances seemed to be laid on a plate and he missed a handful of really good chances. I daresay he'll be a good player, but I wasn't impressed and thought he stood out as their poorest player, but I do agree that style of player is exactly what we need and have done so for a lonh long time with us resorting in to hoofing balls to players like Cody, Donnelly, Norris and Jet in recent times, none of whom really suit or play that role, although arguably Norris and JET physical should do better than they do/did.
The "ape" thing was definitely a typo or auto-correct - not sure what I was trying to say, but wouldn't have said anything like that unless we were playing West Ham and Mark Noble were playing! - it doesn't even make sense in the sentence above.
Also, apologies for doing you a dissservice by asking if you were there - it's just that plenty do comment on here and other forums about matches when they weren't there!
I agree on "the reserves" thing and criticised those playing that card too.
The "ape" thing was definitely a typo or auto-correct - not sure what I was trying to say, but wouldn't have said anything like that unless we were playing West Ham and Mark Noble were playing! - it doesn't even make sense in the sentence above.
Also, apologies for doing you a dissservice by asking if you were there - it's just that plenty do comment on here and other forums about matches when they weren't there!
I agree on "the reserves" thing and criticised those playing that card too.
Ok that's cool I think we pretty much agree overall then.
It's such a shame Quigley got that injury as he looked impressive in his brief cameo at Priestfield before he got injured as he may have fulfilled the Jansen type role for us, and he hasn't been replaced.
For those who didn't go or watch it last night you can watch the whole match here:
http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2016/09/21/tottenham-hotspur-vs-gillingham-highlights-full-match/
It's such a shame Quigley got that injury as he looked impressive in his brief cameo at Priestfield before he got injured as he may have fulfilled the Jansen type role for us, and he hasn't been replaced.
For those who didn't go or watch it last night you can watch the whole match here:
http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2016/09/21/tottenham-hotspur-vs-gillingham-highlights-full-match/
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
"I daresay he'll be a good player"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Eredivisie#Top_scorers
I daresay he's already proven that he's at least a good player
Paranoid Android
Vital Youth Team
As others have said; I don't think the game can just be dismissed by saying "they just had much more quality than us". What worries me is that so many of the problems we've seen in more or less every game this season were once again evident, most of which boil down to the fact we just don't look like a coherent team. Whatever the gulf in quality between two teams, it's generally possible for a well organised team to at least be difficult to break down, whereas Spurs seemed to be able to cut straight through us with minimal resistance - and are far from the first team this season to do so. But for Spurs wastefulness the score could probably have reached double figures.
Then, on the rare occasions we got the ball, our decision making was dreadful; no one really seemed to be on the same wavelength and players were far to keen to take on opponents in one-on-ones they were never going to win. Did we even manage a shot on target?
I wouldn't fault the effort the players put in but I don't think we look like a functioning team at the moment which is very worrying.
Then, on the rare occasions we got the ball, our decision making was dreadful; no one really seemed to be on the same wavelength and players were far to keen to take on opponents in one-on-ones they were never going to win. Did we even manage a shot on target?
I wouldn't fault the effort the players put in but I don't think we look like a functioning team at the moment which is very worrying.
I think the comment above about being well organised sums the performance up well. Whilst I think overall there was some decent individual performances I think we do not have a proper midfield unit which showed as it left us open. It then allowed Spurs to take advantage and play through the gaps that we left.
Its only the second game I've managed to get to this season and I thought we did well first half (ok with better finishing they could well have been 4-5 up at half time) but the two quick fire goals after half time knocked our confidence and then we left the gaps that they easily exploited.
However if we had been more of a solid unit in midfield (and I'll look back to the Pullis era for a great example of a true midfield unit that we had then) we may well have given them more of a game. Unfortunately we haven't really ever had an effective midfield since the championship days, even in the league 2 championship season we never dominated games in the middle of the park, instead we would have several decent passages of play that lead to goals, then would often be overrun in the midfield and spend more time defending.
That's what last night showed up. Being sat up so high the space between Cody and the midfield was incredibly obvious which was why we never managed to really hold the ball and play it out as too much of the team were sat on tge edge of our own area and Cody isn't quick enough or strong enough to play a lone striker role when he is that isolated. So we then panicked when we had the ball, had no option but to hoof the ball and hope Cody got to it, or try and play quick passes that we didn't have the space to play due to their high tempo pressing. If we had a much more cohesive midfield unit and had allowed Dack the option to have stayed further up we may have actually been ablento hold on to the ball more and play ourselves out of trouble. I can see why we've conceded so many goals because it was the same at times against Bradford and when the ball is constantly coming back towards your goal it's going to be difficult to always defend it.
All that said when I heard the teams the one player who worried me was Erikson and I was proved correct. He was a class above and it was a privilege to see him play in the flesh (like Zola was many years ago) and its a good thing we dont come up against his quality very often!
Its only the second game I've managed to get to this season and I thought we did well first half (ok with better finishing they could well have been 4-5 up at half time) but the two quick fire goals after half time knocked our confidence and then we left the gaps that they easily exploited.
However if we had been more of a solid unit in midfield (and I'll look back to the Pullis era for a great example of a true midfield unit that we had then) we may well have given them more of a game. Unfortunately we haven't really ever had an effective midfield since the championship days, even in the league 2 championship season we never dominated games in the middle of the park, instead we would have several decent passages of play that lead to goals, then would often be overrun in the midfield and spend more time defending.
That's what last night showed up. Being sat up so high the space between Cody and the midfield was incredibly obvious which was why we never managed to really hold the ball and play it out as too much of the team were sat on tge edge of our own area and Cody isn't quick enough or strong enough to play a lone striker role when he is that isolated. So we then panicked when we had the ball, had no option but to hoof the ball and hope Cody got to it, or try and play quick passes that we didn't have the space to play due to their high tempo pressing. If we had a much more cohesive midfield unit and had allowed Dack the option to have stayed further up we may have actually been ablento hold on to the ball more and play ourselves out of trouble. I can see why we've conceded so many goals because it was the same at times against Bradford and when the ball is constantly coming back towards your goal it's going to be difficult to always defend it.
All that said when I heard the teams the one player who worried me was Erikson and I was proved correct. He was a class above and it was a privilege to see him play in the flesh (like Zola was many years ago) and its a good thing we dont come up against his quality very often!
SteveTreacle
Vital Football Hero
Fair point, but think it's all relative... He needs to prove he's a good player at Premiership level worth almost 20m. Plenty of players have scored bucket loads or set the world on fire in leagues like Belgium, Holland, France etc and done diddly squat; obviously plenty have succeeded too. Time will tell whether this lad does or doesn't succeed at the top table.
SteveTreacle
Vital Football Hero
I think the points above about or midfield are spot on and relevant to the Spurs game and pretty much all season. We need the likes Dack, Wagstaff and O'Hara to pull their fingers out get fit, get match fit and get in form ASAP. We need some stability in the middle with 4 (maybe 5) from Wright, Dack, Osadebe, Wag and O'Hara forming a settled and stable midfield, with Byrne, Knott and co snapping at their heels to keep them on their toes.
