Tomorrow - minds made up? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Tomorrow - minds made up?

alphabet_king - 22/6/2016 15:17

Abstaining.

I really don't feel there's enough concrete facts from either side. I can see some of the points of both sides but I continuously feel there's just not enough information. Neither side agrees on the very basic of facts.

At work if I were to make such an important decision based on so little information I would be fired.
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My biggest problem with the referendum is that you can only vote if over 18. 16 and 17 year olds will have to live with the decision that can be made by elderly people who might have dementia and a postal vote. My nephew has just turned 15. Whilst not yet worldly wise he has more to lose from this decision than (say) my father, but has no say in it.

If people over 18 can vote purely because they are 18 or over, surely some form of intelligence and/or integrity test could have allowed 14 year olds and above some say in this matter? Or perhaps there could be a cool off period with 16 year olds voting tomorrow, but their votes not being added to the totals for two years, at which point the decision can be announced?

if none of us can vote with 100% conviction that we are right it has to be unfair that age (and imprisonment) are the only bars to voting?
 
LSB2 - 22/6/2016 19:28

It's what my union are saying, the RMT. It's to do with Network Rail, not the train companies. I think the government are going to try to sell us off again (remember Railtrack!) But how they could do that I do not know. Network Rail is getting back to being half decent, and any change would not be good. Leave us alone, until I retire lol
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Yeah I know, but it is about a directive that the infrastructure owners (such as Railtrack) can not put barriers in the way of companies operating train on their tracks.

In other words, if you are licenced to run freight trains in France you will be able (in law) to tun freight trains in the UK should you wish.

Nowhere does it say who should own the infrastructure or the rolling stock.

It is to stop the duplication of services that happened in the 1840s happening again because, say, Network Rail decide to price SNCF off of British tracks. Or worse, that the French network prices the movement of goods between Germany and the UK off its tracks by use of a ransom strip (like what originally forced Charlton out of the Valley).

Simple example: Freight costs 10 per tonne per km to move across Europe, but a corner of France decides it can make a killing by saying it is 20 per tonne for 60km of its vital track miles. Germany and the UK need the route corridor so are forced to pay. The EU is making that illegal. How is that a bad thing?
 
Sorry double post. I hit quote instead of edit. :38: Imagine that smiley means 'I'm an idiot'.
 
17 year olds can vote who they want voted off big brother, this is a decision for the grown ups.

Limehaus, you keep talking about democracy, you shouldnt be so flippant - people are escaping autocrats all over the world, you should speak to an african to find out what it is like living without democracy. We can choose our MP, we can choose our MEP, and we can decide whether we stay in the EU.
 
Barry Freeman - 22/6/2016 19:43

LSB2 - 22/6/2016 19:28

It's what my union are saying, the RMT. It's to do with Network Rail, not the train companies. I think the government are going to try to sell us off again (remember Railtrack!) But how they could do that I do not know. Network Rail is getting back to being half decent, and any change would not be good. Leave us alone, until I retire lol
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Yeah I know, but it is about a directive that the infrastructure owners (such as Railtrack) can not put barriers in the way of companies operating train on their tracks.

In other words, if you are licenced to run freight trains in France you will be able (in law) to tun freight trains in the UK should you wish.

Nowhere does it say who should own the infrastructure or the rolling stock.

It is to stop the duplication of services that happened in the 1840s happening again because, say, Network Rail decide to price SNCF off of British tracks. Or worse, that the French network prices the movement of goods between Germany and the UK off its tracks by use of a ransom strip (like what originally forced Charlton out of the Valley).

Simple example: Freight costs 10 per tonne per km to move across Europe, but a corner of France decides it can make a killing by saying it is 20 per tonne for 60km of its vital track miles. Germany and the UK need the route corridor so are forced to pay. The EU is making that illegal. How is that a bad thing?
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Network Rail is run by the government, and that's how I like it. The train operating companies is something else. If you can guarantee that Network Rail will not be sold off (again!) or put out to a franchise within the next 10 years, I'll think about my vote some more. It didn't help the other day watching Benefits Britain, as that bloody annoyed me! :21:
 
oh i can assure you I am not flippant. I take these violations of democracy very seriously. The bigger the EU grows the less democratic we become. At the moment some unelected EU nonce can propose a law, have it ratified and enforced in Britain without our governments agreement. If that is not undemocratic I don't know what is.
 
50m bet on the outcome on betfair. 39m of that is on remain. If you bet now 10 would return 12.70 if you backed remain and 10 would return 46 if you bet leave.

Be interesting to see what the odds do tomorrow considering the polls are pretty much neck and neck. Personally think will be about 54-46 remain.
 
I think it will be as tight as a nun's in favour of remain. However, that leaves a large percentage of discontented people.
 
'And what better way to ensure democracy than by denying them a vote.'

Au contraire mon brave! By being caring responsible adults, we are looking after our children and enabling them to have the ability to vote in the future, rather than the EU machine careering out of order and making decisions for the benefit of all in all countries.
 
Big day for Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and the rest of the Brexit team and their supporters.
 
I voted Remain but more importantly so did the wife who's been undecided till the last minute. There'll be a lot like her who won't want to rock the boat in the end.
 
My biggest problem with the referendum is that you can only vote if over 18. 16 and 17 year olds will have to live with the decision that can be made by elderly people who might have dementia and a postal vote. My nephew has just turned 15. Whilst not yet worldly wise he has more to lose from this decision than (say) my father, but has no say in it.

If people over 18 can vote purely because they are 18 or over, surely some form of intelligence and/or integrity test could have allowed 14 year olds and above some say in this matter? Or perhaps there could be a cool off period with 16 year olds voting tomorrow, but their votes not being added to the totals for two years, at which point the decision can be announced?

if none of us can vote with 100% conviction that we are right it has to be unfair that age (and imprisonment) are the only bars to voting?
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What a load of nonsense. There seems to be this view from a lot of the remain side that anyone young is right and anyone old is wrong - basically because those older want to vote out generally and alot of youngsters want to remain in.

There is a lot of talk about ill-educated older "little Englanders" voting in for the wrong reasons. However, from what I've experienced, a lot of youngsters, i.e. 18-30 year olds, and the liberal lect generally, are just as clueless and not voting for the right reasons - their main concerns seem to evolve around a hatred for Farage and Johnson and wishy washy Eddie Izzard style "we love everybody and want to be in this together", or because they like travelling (as if that will be banned were we to leave the EU). They don't seem to understand what sort of monster the EU is and that it represents quite the opposite of their socially loving ideology (just look at the mess in Greece, Spain and other countries) - if they understood it, they'd realise it represents everything that is contrary to their ideologies.
 
Arthurly - 23/6/2016 09:01

I voted Remain but more importantly so did the wife who's been undecided till the last minute. There'll be a lot like her who won't want to rock the boat in the end.
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Sadly I think there will be a lot like that who are 50/50 and opt for the safe, better the devil you know option, which is their perogative. Sadly, I think that and the Jo Cox murder, and the way that's been played indirectly by the pro-remain press and media (and crassly responded to by Farage and some of the leave mob), will swing a lot of undecided voters to remain, which will be a sad day for the country and massive missed opportunity, IMO.
 
Anyone have cool employers who make allowances to ensure people are able to vote? We've been told we can come in an hour late, or leave an hour early.

I was half expecting some remain propaganda to be circulated internally as our core business is in providing services to EMEA. I was preparing to be outraged (despite being a staunch remainer), but that hasn't come to pass, despite how potentially damaging leaving would be to us. If you think that sounds far fetched, the previous regime here had crossed the line in the past.

Good show.
 
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