Toby Alderweireld - Player Thread | Page 8 | Vital Football

Toby Alderweireld - Player Thread

Spursex said:
As I've been saying for 18 months; he's slowed and he can't jump anymore and his judgement for how he defends now reflects this in his poor/deeper positioning.

He was responsible or partially responsible for both their goals.

We should have let him leave; it's a very poor judgement by the club to resign him.
Click to expand...

The problem is as much the preferential treatment that Aurier is receiving. I'm OK with him getting a little more freedom to attack than Davies, but the reality is he never gets back in shape. Jose should also switch Toby and Sanchez and let the Colombian martial the right like he was doing when he first joined. That's is the better combo when they drop into that 3 with Davies

Jose proved that he can get the best out of an older Terry but it was as much to do with the full-backs and Kante / Matic combo in front. That's not the case with Toby, who is being exposed by the system.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I am surprised Toby played after the week he had. Jose probably rested Tanga and Vert for Wednesday but I suggest he should have rested Toby.
On the goals, the first started with Davies failing twice to deal with the attack out wide. He lost the duel initially then didnt stop the cross coming in. Lloris probably should have come out, he went to, stuttered and left Toby in two minds. Toby got a foot to it but skewed it. We have seen this type of own goal many times from CBs for all clubs, it happens.
On the second goal , Toby couldn't jump because he was being climbed over by their scorer. He was pushing down on his shoulders and possibly the goal should have been chalked off for that. This was my initial opinion but I will watch it again to see the severity of the climb.
We know Toby is technically good with his right foot from his accurate long balls and that swivel shot was Ronaldo esque. It seems a shame to limit his chances at having a pop at goal due to his defensive duties. When Sissoko is back who can get back quicker than anyone else and tends to hang back for that reason , maybe Toby could advance a bit more.
Click to expand...

Agree, Davies got way too tight and couldn't recover.
 
He is clearly on the decline. I do understand why we resigned him though. There are not many top CB's around these days. We needed some stability at the back. We can't sign new players for every position in a few transfer windows.

Toby has had some blinders this season.

We need to be on the look out for another Sanchez level young CB.
 
Real Deal said:
He is clearly on the decline. I do understand why we resigned him though. There are not many top CB's around these days. We needed some stability at the back. We can't sign new players for every position in a few transfer windows.

Toby has had some blinders this season.

We need to be on the look out for another Sanchez level young CB.
Click to expand...

Sorry< I can't recall a single blinder he's played - I can recall a couple of half-decent games (the sort he was having most games a couple of seasons ago) but no blinders.

Keep playing him and we'll continue to keep leaking goals we never did. Every striker and his dog must be rubbing their hands at the thought of taking him on man to man.
 
Who replaces him though? Jan? Tang or Dier?

I wouldn't have Jan or Dier anywhere near the first 11 and Tang whilst talented is still unproven.
 
Real Deal said:
Who replaces him though? Jan? Tang or Dier?

I wouldn't have Jan or Dier anywhere near the first 11 and Tang whilst talented is still unproven.
Click to expand...

Dier is proven in that role and is improving once again, he's quicker than Toby - actually, he's deceptively quick and he can get himself in the air, something that Toby seems almost unable to do anymore.

I'd have to try Tang as a DM'er - quick, an eye for a well timed tackle and tough as a brick wall.
 
A review of the ratings thread indicates Toby rarely rates above 6. Though 6 is a constant for him in most games. I would say he is in slow decline. A 7 or 8 would be a reassuring rating for a CB. Interestingly I would possibly consider swapping positions with Dier. So Toby as a DM as he gets older. I know it's a bit pie in the sky but shoot me down if so please.
 
Toby also admitted himself he hasn't slept and had an 8 hour journey leading up to the game as the littlun was born back in Belgium. He was clearly heavy legged and probably in no position to start the game. That was most obvious in his jumping.

Why we still need Toby is for his sixth sense in reading a situation and his leadership. We do need to solve for that in the transfer window as whilst Sanchez is playing well, he is not doing those things. Toby's best games this seasons have been when he does these things mostly unnoticed. He's actually had some phenomenal games holding things together.

What annoys me most is the Aurier luxury position and the defensive contribution of the front four. Agree with Ex that Dier is finally improving but would add that you could be the best in the business like Frenkie de Jong and be struggling in our 2 man midfield at the moment. It's worst in the early part of games when guys like Moura and Son just aren't switched on.
 
muttley said:
Toby also admitted himself he hasn't slept and had an 8 hour journey leading up to the game as the littlun was born back in Belgium. He was clearly heavy legged and probably in no position to start the game. That was most obvious in his jumping.

Why we still need Toby is for his sixth sense in reading a situation and his leadership. We do need to solve for that in the transfer window as whilst Sanchez is playing well, he is not doing those things. Toby's best games this seasons have been when he does these things mostly unnoticed. He's actually had some phenomenal games holding things together.

What annoys me most is the Aurier luxury position and the defensive contribution of the front four. Agree with Ex that Dier is finally improving but would add that you could be the best in the business like Frenkie de Jong and be struggling in our 2 man midfield at the moment. It's worst in the early part of games when guys like Moura and Son just aren't switched on.
Click to expand...

I really did sympathize with Toby's week, but you have to put that to one-side when you assess his contributions this season; the player tracking analysis software that is used by a company I know speaks volumes about his degradation, I wish to God I could show some of it's measure here, but the licensing costs are prohibitive and frankly if I tried to, I'd be hung drawn and quartered. Jose would have seen what I've seen and more and must believe that experience is worth the decline in his performances and can be off-set tactically (by playing deeper) and by others making up for his deficiencies that are growing ever more evident - clearly, I don't.

I'm in full agreement with Poch here, both our one -time first call CB's had to be replaced in the summer, but Jose thinks otherwise. I even hear at the moment that we are back in discussions with Vert; if true, I'm hugely disappointed, and perhaps will even be in utter despair if we do.

Aurier isn't in a luxury position - he's playing under orders. What I did see on Sunday yet again is a player who was left defenseless and no help from the attacks down their left with almost no help from Moura.

But back to Toby, I think there is very little he does well now, unless Jose has a miracle cure for age!
 
Spursex said:
I really did sympathize with Toby's week, but you have to put that to one-side when you assess his contributions this season; the player tracking analysis software that is used by a company I know speaks volumes about his degradation, I wish to God I could show some of it's measure here, but the licensing costs are prohibitive and frankly if I tried to, I'd be hung drawn and quartered. Jose would have seen what I've seen and more and must believe that experience is worth the decline in his performances and can be off-set tactically (by playing deeper) and by others making up for his deficiencies that are growing ever more evident - clearly, I don't.

I'm in full agreement with Poch here, both our one -time first call CB's had to be replaced in the summer, but Jose thinks otherwise. I even hear at the moment that we are back in discussions with Vert; if true, I'm hugely disappointed, and perhaps will even be in utter despair if we do.

Aurier isn't in a luxury position - he's playing under orders. What I did see on Sunday yet again is a player who was left defenseless and no help from the attacks down their left with almost no help from Moura.

But back to Toby, I think there is very little he does well now, unless Jose has a miracle cure for age!
Click to expand...

Well you already know that I wouldn't have kept Toby, Jan, Rose or Eriksen.

I always think back to the 14/15 season under Jose with JT. He was a couple of years older than Toby is now. He played all 38 league games and Chelsea won the league. He had Ivanovic, Cahill and Azpilicueta in the back four with him and Matic shielding. I bet JT was in the same or worse physical shape as Toby is now but Jose found a system that never left him horribly exposed like we're seeing.

It really is down to Jose to figure it out. Either get some of these setup issues fixed or he might need to stand Toby down. That might have to be Dier though as leadership is key in that back line.

As for Aurier and Moura, they're 27 years old. I think it's pathetic if guys that age haven't learnt their trade and can't even do simple communication. The "luxury position" comment by the way is aimed at Jose, not Serge who is almost playing to instruction. I say almost because I'm sure Jose is not saying to him that it its perfectly OK to be ambling back once you're caught the wrong side of play. That is killing Toby.
 
muttley said:
Well you already know that I wouldn't have kept Toby, Jan, Rose or Eriksen.

I always think back to the 14/15 season under Jose with JT. He was a couple of years older than Toby is now. He played all 38 league games and Chelsea won the league. He had Ivanovic, Cahill and Azpilicueta in the back four with him and Matic shielding. I bet JT was in the same or worse physical shape as Toby is now but Jose found a system that never left him horribly exposed like we're seeing.

It really is down to Jose to figure it out. Either get some of these setup issues fixed or he might need to stand Toby down. That might have to be Dier though as leadership is key in that back line.

As for Aurier and Moura, they're 27 years old. I think it's pathetic if guys that age haven't learnt their trade and can't even do simple communication. The "luxury position" comment by the way is aimed at Jose, not Serge who is almost playing to instruction. I say almost because I'm sure Jose is not saying to him that it its perfectly OK to be ambling back once you're caught the wrong side of play. That is killing Toby.
Click to expand...

well for what it's worth, I was told that Jose believes he can push up, the back 4 becomes 3 and he's to stay up the field to break faster..except of course.....
 
muttley said:
Such a classy guy in everything he does and says. So gutted that his age is catching up with him, as his brain still works in overdrive every time he crosses the white line.
Click to expand...

If he can find his form via a good pre-season, I'll be the first to applaud him.

It's a good interview, well-staged and skirts around why he wasn't going to re-sign, I just hope that with his newfound happiness the desire to succeed is back again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.