Time for the barricades? | Page 3 | Vital Football

Time for the barricades?

Bikini Inspector - 9/1/2014 18:35

Mark Duggan got what he deserved. The Army should be sent into these estates to dish out the same to these "gangstas". Send the infantry into the flats and position snipers to take out the runners.
Click to expand...



First off, I do not know this case, which is why I asked those questions on the previous page, but to play Devil's advocate....

Why did he get what he deserved? Are you sentencing him based on what the media have fed you? All I have read so far is that an unarmed man was killed in cold blood, so he was executed without trial and everyone seems happy with that.

Is everyone basing their personal opinion on the opinions given them by the media? A media who in this case can only have taken their script/information from the very police force who shot an unarmed man dead, sound right to you?

Not that the police force would ever act illegally or try to cover things up, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that in the ten years leading up to 2008 not one of the 333 deaths in police custody was unlawful, in fact no police officer has been successfully prosecuted for causing an unlawful death in this country, either by shooting, hitting with a batton or through use of force! Isn't that an amazing record, gawd bless em they must all be perfect, is that dripping in enough sarcasm for you?

Or in other words, that is just too clean, too prefect to be true, a jury would never believe that, yet we are supposed to.

So I ask you again, what do you TRULY know about Mark Duggan?


 
I don't agree with executing a man in the street.
I'm no bleeding heart liberal as you all know but that's actually too far for me.












Take him somewhere quiet then do it.
 
Juan Mourep - 9/1/2014 20:53

Bikini Inspector - 9/1/2014 18:35

Mark Duggan got what he deserved. The Army should be sent into these estates to dish out the same to these "gangstas". Send the infantry into the flats and position snipers to take out the runners.
Click to expand...



First off, I do not know this case, which is why I asked those questions on the previous page, but to play Devil's advocate....

Why did he get what he deserved? Are you sentencing him based on what the media have fed you? All I have read so far is that an unarmed man was killed in cold blood, so he was executed without trial and everyone seems happy with that.

Is everyone basing their personal opinion on the opinions given them by the media? A media who in this case can only have taken their script/information from the very police force who shot an unarmed man dead, sound right to you?

Not that the police force would ever act illegally or try to cover things up, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that in the ten years leading up to 2008 not one of the 333 deaths in police custody was unlawful, in fact no police officer has been successfully prosecuted for causing an unlawful death in this country, either by shooting, hitting with a batton or through use of force! Isn't that an amazing record, gawd bless em they must all be perfect, is that dripping in enough sarcasm for you?

Or in other words, that is just too clean, too prefect to be true, a jury would never believe that, yet we are supposed to.

So I ask you again, what do you TRULY know about Mark Duggan?
Click to expand...

Well unless you knew the man you are basing your opinions off the media aswell. Read a bit more about the scumbag.

This is a guy who did believe in executing people in the street or a nightclub or wherever else he felt like.

Be as nice and reasonable as you want. But him and his kind would happily sell drugs to your child or turn you over if you looked at them the wrong way. I am perfectly fine with the police acting like gangsters to wipe out gangsters.

The police have finally got something right. Their job is to protect us from scum like him and they have.

I'm not joking about sending in the army either. These people need to be wiped out.
 
Totally agree Jim. Too add another 1, my friends late brother who lived by the sword so to speak always used to say 'If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' He was on/off in trouble with the police for mainly shoplifting/ram raiding type crimes.

He live life fast and on the edge. He died 'like a bat out of hell' on a motorbike at the age of 36. He was from a decent family. Only 1 who was in trouble with the law. He was a lovable rogue. You couldn't help but like him.

I can tell you exactly what he would have said about this: 'You took your chance, paid the price, tough' He wouldn't agree with what his family are doing either. Not that it matters. Just saying.

I am relieved to find the conscientious agree on this. I have seen 1 or 2 FB statuses about this, screaming justice hasn't been done, repost, blah, blah.

I think the majority are just ignoring it and saying nothing, who don't agree, so not to start a virtual war.

Yeah I love that 1: People who complain bitterly about the police, yet still want them their when there house has been burgled and so on
 
I think those who say XYZ about him being shot should try doing the police job and having to make split moment decisions. Easy to criticize in hind sight when you weren't their and in that situation.

............................

Bikini totally agree with what you said in response to Juan
 
Bikini Inspector - 9/1/2014 21:16

Well unless you knew the man you are basing your opinions off the media aswell.
Click to expand...


I stated that I did not know the case, I asked questions based on what others had posted, I have no opinion on the man, I have not researched him, I stated that I was playing devils advocate, I assumed you would understand that, my apologies.


I am perfectly fine with the police acting like gangsters to wipe out gangsters.
Click to expand...


I'm not, this is Great Britain, not Russia, who gets to decide what grade of criminal gets executed? Judge, jury and executioner all in one, you do realise how open to abuse that system is don't you?


The police have finally got something right. Their job is to protect us from scum like him and they have.
Click to expand...


He was unarmed and executed according to this thread, IF he was still in possession of his gun, IF he hadn't dropped it, I wouldn't even be commenting, but everyone is stating that this lad was executed in the street in cold blood, instead of his right to a fair trial, he was executed, and that is against our laws, do you not understand that?

Are the police now above the laws they are supposed to be upholding?


I'm not joking about sending in the army either. These people need to be wiped out.
Click to expand...


These people, who are these people? You mention drug dealers, so do you mean them, if so, all of them? Does it make any difference which drug they are touting? Robbers? Would it make any difference what weapon they used for the robbery?

I need to know which people you deem unfit to live and would happily see "wiped out"



 
kefkat - 9/1/2014 21:18

People who complain bitterly about the police, yet still want them their when there house has been burgled and so on
Click to expand...



So we can't expect them to do their job AND not break the law by executing people in the street?

Why?




 
kefkat - 9/1/2014 21:22

try doing the police job and having to make split moment decisions. Easy to criticize in hind sight when you weren't their and in that situation.
Click to expand...



Mmmmmmmm Well he's just dropped his gun, what should I do now, arrest or execute? Well execution is illegal, so I suppose I should arrest him, do I get the job?



 
Green Villan - 9/1/2014 21:24

He was in possession of a gun, guilty, case closed.
Click to expand...


Date Updated: January 2012

Title: Firearms

Offence: Possession of a Firearm/Ammunition without a certificate

Legislation: s1 Firearms Act 1968

Commencement Date:

Mode of Trial: TEW

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty:

Possession of a firearm or ammunition without certificate is triable either way
Summary - 6 months/maximum fine
On indictment - when aggravated (see section 4(4)) 7 years, otherwise 5 years.
Failure to comply with a condition of a certificate is triable only summarily - 6 months/level 5 fine




I agree he was guilty, yet I can't find the bit above that say's public execution is okay :81:

Am I missing something here?



 
Sorry Juan, your conspiracy is well argued.

But a jury of your peers decided this, and found cause in both the fact the police officer acted in good faith both on the infomation he was given (which was wrong) and the act in the moment where it wasn't possible to know whether he was un armed as it later turned out.

I find the after case speech by the family member far more abhorant than a mistake from a police officer in the moment, but thankfully his mother has done her best to rectify that since with further statements.

You're making the assumption it was execution and not an in the moment act/decision fearing for their own/their colleagues and any passers by safety.

Bottom line, don't want to get shot, don't play with guns and be known to do so.
 
mike_field - 10/1/2014 01:58

But a jury of your peers decided this, and found cause in both the fact the police officer acted in good faith both on the infomation he was given (which was wrong) and the act in the moment where it wasn't possible to know whether he was un armed as it later turned out.
Click to expand...


I have no doubt that the police had a watertight case Mike


You're making the assumption it was execution
Click to expand...


Au contrair, mon ami! I made no such assumption, I based my questions on this statement

"James06 - 9/1/2014 13:05
When stopped by police he was asked several times to drop his firearm, instead he fled, and threw it. They were right to shoot him"

He threw his weapon and was then shot, to me that is an execution of an unarmed man, well it is, isn't it?

The fact you have offered the official excuse, which was accepted by the jury (certainly not my peers, I can manage independent thought : ) doesn't change the information I was working from.

I deliberately avoided checking this out, because I wanted what others had taken from the media first.


Bottom line, don't want to get shot, don't play with guns and be known to do so.
Click to expand...


I assume you mean don't be an armed criminal, I know plenty of people who have firearms, thoroughly nice people, I would hate to think they are in danger : )

The responses in this thread are quite shocking, many are condoning a police state, without fully realising the implications of such a regime, while others are stating it is fine to execute an unarmed man without trial! So they are willing to accept the breaking of the law themselves, to see others who break the law "wiped out" Speaks volumes.



 
Bottom line is you live like a gangster, don't be surprised when you get took out by the law!
 
Cool, sorry that didn't seem to come across but even then reading what you said dude, a police watertight case comes across as reading as they covered themselves.

How about for the officer concerned it was true?

He will afterall have to live with it. He's gone through this, not knowing if he'd be charged, sacked, reassigned, and always consider he obviously made the wrong choice in the moment and the inquiry also proved that.

Put yourself in his shoes instead of being general.

I forgive the second part, I missed that, I thought you were saying execution. My apologies my good man.

Again, this officer will have to live with this for the rest of his life, and it matters not what Duggan's past may have been, he knows he killed a man in cold blood, owing to pathetic intelligence in the moment where he had to make a decision. We'd both take it if trained and in that position, and I'd imagine we'd both hit the whiskey when the truth came out.

But it's not a precursor to a conspiracy.

53 gun deaths in London last year, 3 by copper. They aren't exactly spraying the populus. And before you mention in custardy death, have you any idea what goes into custardy to avoid that? I mean first hand experience either as a person in that situation lol or as somebody who dealt with it?

Improvements can and should be made in confinement, it's always a learning curve as science evolves and procedures deemed safe in the past are proven not to be, but we are again talking about human beings like us, in an impossible position and with the amount of people locked up over 12 months even for a night...you referenced 300 odd deaths. That probably isn't even one %. Shit happens unfortunately, if you don't want to be a statistic don't be a twat is the bottom line.

The jury also found I believe that in the moment of throwing the weapon, it was unclear whether he was raising and the throwing of such weapon occured in shooting. I could be wrong, as said I haven't following this closely but that's what I gathered tonight.

A jury is your peers though, they are made up of you and me and others. Ever been one one? I have. Legally I can't say much, especially as I use my name on here mate so it's easily trackable lol (not a dig!) but I found the liberal lefties were far more likely to dismiss charges that were watertight, and only argued at the end because it made them self important.

A jury is fair reflection alebit not perfect because nobody can thoroughly dismiss their own bias, and it's based on information and evidence given. The copper made the right decision based on the information available and how the moment played out, even if that was ultimately the wrong choice.

Easy for us to sit here and say he shouldn't have.

I used to know a bloke in SO19? (getting late) and I dearly hope he's no longer involved. He doesn't have the benefit of hinsdight, a second thought, witness statements or camera angles. He used to get called to a scene with a report of firearm, and when the accused moved he had to think quicker than the brain in capable of, whether it was aggressive or not and all he could fall on was his training and that's all this copper did.

He got this one wrong through lack of information and a fuck ugly draw, but if anyone thinks they can do better in the moment, do the job don't bitch from the sidelines.

As for your latter statement, no I mean don't be armed. Full stop. Why should their be a difference? I also know people with shotties and they have them for 'hunting' purposes or clay shooting along with rifles, and I know the legal requirements of owning such as well, but they can get hold of them - even though their is a legal definition of how far the ammunition should be away from the firearm and the level of security applied to both parts of the weapon, they can probably grab them quicker than I can my cock.

You want to shoot go to a club who hold them. There is no sensible reason for having a firearm in your home. We aren't members of the teabag party, hanging from the arse of the republicans in america...

I don't know Duggan, but I know what the jury heard as much as can be reported in the press, and if you think dude that's a police state then I feel sorry foryour experiences with the police. They are not however means enough to generalise as you are doing.

As said you've argued your conspiracy well, but unfortunately, you are wrong.

We have the same freedoms in self defence as a lay person.
 
the way i look at it is: he had a gun, any person with a gun intends to do some damage. If not today, then tomorrow or the next day etc. Glad he is dead. He is a risk, and now he isn't. Job done.
 
Not that I would get into this situation, ever, but...

If the police stopped me, and I was in possesion of a firearm, and they asked me to stop, place the firearm down, get on the floor, hands behind my head, drop my trousers, do the funky chicken, moonwalk or whatever... I'd bloody well do it!

The very second you run or do something erratic or against what you've been told, when surrounded by armed police, then it's fair to say that your risking it a bit.

Add into the mix that you're a known gang leader, with loads of previous, have been under surveilance for sometime in a costly operation, and the reason you were stopped in the first place because its suspected you are yourself on your way to carry out an execution (almost certain: hence the firearm), then you definately dont want to be messing the police about and runnign the guantlet trying to escape.

I have no sympathy whatsover in the Mark Duggan case. People who protest agianst the police for what happened are fools, or wankers, or both.
 
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

I'd go with another option, I'd do the elephant trunk impression and then explain the trunk is so small because it is a but chilly outside.

But agree Jim, hands up no shooting surely?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.