Those in glass houses....n/g

[ThreeSixes]

Or it could just be a cock-up down to a lack of professionalism and proof-reading/checking, which presumably is what happened in the Watkins case and the analogy I make above (which has conveniently been ignored), which, in my opinion, is a pretty much identical situation, yet there wasn't any any angle to engineer the the offence alleged in the Mendy situation (beyond the personal damage by associated to poor old H's reputation!). Namely, in the case of a misreporting and misidentity in the press of a couple of white guys, it's just a cock-up, but as it involves black footballers, it must be down to racism!

The Guardian mixed up Wiley and Kano (they are both black!). Can happen, even to non-racists.

 

[MedwayModernist]

This board aint what it used to be.

I'm enjoying this place less and less all the time. It's quite depressing. And I don't want or need to be depressed anymore than I already am.

You'll be hearing less from me. I doubt I'll be able to completely stop reading and posting, not immediately anyway. With a bit of effort maybe I'll be able to kick the habit completely.

Thank fuck for jogills and MedwayModernist.

If you try hard enough maybe you'll disillusion them too. Then you'll have your echo chamber.

No doubt that'll please some of you.

Up the Gills!

Cheers mate, I had covid pretty badly a few weeks ago, so was off this site for the best part of a month, and really didn't miss it.

Remember the days when it was jokes about the location of the Queen's Head?

 

[MedwayModernist]

The Guardian mixed up Wiley and Kano (they are both black!). Can happen, even to non-racists.

Of course it can, but ffs it's a pretty severe error that shouldn't really be happening.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Do you think that is true? You are obviously a good man and a non-racist, but if you were in a group where a person called another a ****, would you not remember it? And if you are in a group where racism was so normal that it seemingly wasn't even noticed any more but you did nothing about it, could you still call yourself a good man, and a non-racist?

TBH I don't really believe Root's account. The fact he said "I don't recall" screams of a solicitor advising him what to say.

He was in a rock and a hard place frankly, if he says, yes I heard that etc, then he will be under fire for not acting etc, especially given he previously used his captaincy position to get Gary Ballance another chance in the test team (as is his right). If he actively denies, saying that it did not happen, then he's throwing Azeem under the bus.

Azeem basically let him off with his statement in the parliamentary hearing, probably because Joe is a good bloke, and wasn't racist to Azeem, and Azeem didn't want to drag his name through the mud, as this issue really isn't about Joe Root.

 

[jogills]

Agreed, it's not helpful at all and is pretty pointless as it pretty much applies to all. I was just using the fact to highlight how careful we have to be when labelling people as "racist". Its a term that can ruin people's lives when really they may just be misinformed or, for want of a better word, ignorant.
Our race relation training is ongoing and the words we're "allowed" to use change all the time. How is it fair to expect someone in a less informed job than me to keep up? Mistakes will be made but they must be used to highlight learning needs rather than used as a stick to beat someone with.
As for the Mendy thing, I don't assume for one minute that this was a deliberate act of racism, merely lazy research. I remember Gary Steven being (telephone) interviewed on Talksport a few years ago and about two minutes into the interview, it became clear that the station's researcher had called Gary Stevens by mistake. He had a bit of a moan but it was never pricked up by other media. Is mistaken identity racist when it involves a black guy but not a white one? Again, ridiculous and another example of people seeing racism when it's not there IMO.

Generally I agree but I find it harder to dismiss the Mendy issue. We can never know the motives, if any, of the journalists involved and I only speculated in response to a question.. My real concern is that it's unforgivable to post incorrect pictures supposed to show an alleged rapist and that applies whatever the skin colour. It becomes more damaging when all three players are black. As Edouard Mendy says the club shirt is a clue. It speaks of a lazy attitude towards race, basic research and attention and needs addressing.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

The Guardian mixed up Wiley and Kano (they are both black!). Can happen, even to non-racists.

Or when match commentators regularly mixed up the two following players playing in the middle of the Everton midfield.

 

[ThreeSixes]

It speaks of a lazy attitude towards race, basic research and attention and needs addressing.

The question I don't think I'm going to get you to answer, is why do you need to include the word "race" in that sentence?

This wouldn't be a serious issue if Benjamin Mendy was being nominated for player of the year, would it?

 

[Trashbat]

It's quite common when you call multi national's call centre in India, the Asian person answering the phone quotes an English name.
If they are being asked to do this as part of their employment isn't that racist?
Surely this is no different to 'dave or kevin',

I think it says a lot about British attitudes that someone has to use a different name - presumably to be more acceptable to the customer.

 

[Trashbat]

Cheers mate, I had covid pretty badly a few weeks ago, so was off this site for the best part of a month, and really didn't miss it.

Remember the days when it was jokes about the location of the Queen's Head?

It is a better place for you and Bud with your both here.

 

[SteveTreacle]

Azeem basically let him off with his statement in the parliamentary hearing, probably because Joe is a good bloke, and wasn't racist to Azeem, and Azeem didn't want to drag his name through the mud, as this issue really isn't about Joe Root.

That could be true, which may be because you've come from the viewpoint of the parliamentary panel and a lot of the media to take all of Rafiq's claims as read; equally, Root could have let him off, been and could have disputed Rafiq's claims more vehemently and more assuredly and maybe was just being diplomatic, given his role and what it stands for (especially at the moment).

As it stands, we don't know, which is why I personally want to see a proper inquiry (maybe by the ECB, but using independent expert in the field lawyers or barristers), who will forensically interview and challenge all parties, look for evidence and corroboration and come to a conclusion on a civil standard of proof. Yorkshire's investigation was a disgrace, the ECB's hands-off involvement in allowing Yorkshire to crack on with it and report back to them was clearly flawed and I am afraid the DCMS panel this week was weak and didn't probe, challenge or get to the bottom of the issues anywhere near enough.

 

[Buddha]

I tend to agree with you Bud but for different reasons probably.

This board always had a variety of opinions but generally you could have a good conversation even if you didn't agree. Even with Wayne to an extent.

Still can with some but increasingly people are more likely to use childish names rather than have a adult conversation. The term scally out muppetts being an example.

All good things come to an end and maybe this board is reaching the end of its life cycle. It would be interesting to see what percentage of members actually post regularly now.

Take care if you don't post that often Bud. We couldn't be more different in our outlook sometimes but you are certainly one of a reducing number on here I'd enjoy sharing a beer with.

Thanks Mark.

I've always enjoyed chatting with you. It doesn't matter that we have differing views about various things. I think it's all about respect. I respect your opinions and I get the impression you respect mine.

There are quite a few on here though whose views (and particularly the way they express them) I have no respect for, and it's pretty obvious they feel the same way about me and mine. I simply cannot be bothered with those posters anymore. As far as I'm concerned they pollute the board to such an extent that I get depressed reading and engaging. I don't doubt that they feel the same way about me. So it's probably for the best that I just don't get involved anymore.

As I said above, I expect I'll still read the board, and might occasionally chip in when the conversation isn't political.

If you do ever want to meet up for that beer, or just have a chat, send me a private message. Same applies to many others on here.

Up the Gills!

 

[Buddha]

Cheers mate, I had covid pretty badly a few weeks ago, so was off this site for the best part of a month, and really didn't miss it.

Remember the days when it was jokes about the location of the Queen's Head?

Yeah, it ain't like the old days. But then I feel that way about quite a few things.

Hope you're feeling better now.

Same message I sent to Mark applies to you.

Up the Gills!

 

[GillsBluenose]

Rafiq claims that Root was present when such language was used by others. Root says he doesn't remember that and Rafiq says he may well not have done because it made little impression on him. Ballance has more questions to answer.

Now you, like Rafiq, are making casual assumptions. In that statement Rafiq not only presumed to know what Joe Root thinks but also how he interprets things and the extent of his memory. Perceptive guy.

Ballance also admitted to calling Rafiq by a nickname which could be in hindsight be interpreted as racist, but also said that he was also often referred to as a "Zimbo", which is a derivation/abbreviation of his Zimbabwean heritage and is sometimes thought to be derogatory. He also said that at one time he regarded Rafiq as being his best friend in cricket. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Rafiq used the "Zimbo" term in light hearted discourse?

You wish to assume, like so many jumping on the bandwagon, that Rafiq is telling the truth and Root and Ballance are both lying, as is Michael Vaughan, but how can you know that, particularly as Rafiq has now been shown to be far from perfect himself and has not been subjected to any form of cross examination?

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

Generally I agree but I find it harder to dismiss the Mendy issue. We can never know the motives, if any, of the journalists involved and I only speculated in response to a question..

The classic "We don't know the motivation but lets assume it is -phobic" approach.

As Edouard Mendy says the club shirt is a clue. It speaks of a lazy attitude towards race, basic research and attention and needs addressing.

It is unclear where the mistaken images were actually used.

Were the mistakes

a) on the Sports pages where the journalists should have known better, or
b) on the general news section where the journalist probably didn't care about football and simply googled "Footballer Mendy" and picked one of the first images. As per my own screen print below, the majority is of Edouard Mendy. Certainly the ones in the middle which would inherently catch your eyes are of the Chelsea keeper.



In the modern environment where the mere accusation of being -phobic can be a deaf sentence to a person's career, I find it harder to believe that someone would deliberately try to use the wrong image. Certainly from the media company's lawyer's perspective they would make it clear that it is a good policy of not mixing wrong images up (in all cases).

Hanlon's Razor is usually correct - never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity "

 

[Jerryattrick]

Cheers mate, I had covid pretty badly a few weeks ago, so was off this site for the best part of a month, and really didn't miss it.

Remember the days when it was jokes about the location of the Queen's Head?

The board has only gone backwards because of posters spitting their dummies out and 'giving up' plus the ridiculous banning of posters or telling posters that they should not post or comment and being rude to each other. Basically just f intolerance.

either join in the debate, start your own threads or as 58 does press the ignore button to keep your sanity.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Yeah, it ain't like the old days. But then I feel that way about quite a few things.

Hope you're feeling better now.

Same message I sent to Mark applies to you.

Up the Gills!

you are better than this, you may be down at the moment but thats how it goes lol.
you know you will never give up the fight, we stand together and fall together - United we stand, you are not alone mate.

 

[jogills]

The question I don't think I'm going to get you to answer, is why do you need to include the word "race" in that sentence?

This wouldn't be a serious issue if Benjamin Mendy was being nominated for player of the year, would it?

I'm not sure what the import of your question is. I am saying that the inattention, poor research and easily avoided confusion is regrettably common where black players and individuals are concerned. I do not think that three different white players would have been pictured in a similar case. Player of the year? Less serious because of less damaging consequences but just the same in other regards.

 

[SteveTreacle]

The board has only gone backwards because of posters spitting their dummies out and 'giving up' plus the ridiculous banning of posters or telling posters that they should not post or comment and being rude to each other. Basically just f intolerance.

either join in the debate, start your own threads or as 58 does press the ignore button to keep your sanity.

Spot on. Gotta love the tolerant left (and forgive me for generalising as there are some exceptions to my generalisation). If you don't operate in their echo chamber and don't have the same views as them, they don't want to hear your views and debate with you.

I think it all started with A_K's mega dumming spitting flounce over Saint Megan Markle!

 

[ThreeSixes]

Now you, like Rafiq, are making casual assumptions. In that statement Rafiq not only presumed to know what Joe Root thinks but also how he interprets things and the extent of his memory. Perceptive guy.

Ballance also admitted to calling Rafiq by a nickname which could be in hindsight be interpreted as racist, but also said that he was also often referred to as a "Zimbo", which is a derivation/abbreviation of his Zimbabwean heritage and is sometimes thought to be derogatory. He also said that at one time he regarded Rafiq as being his best friend in cricket. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Rafiq used the "Zimbo" term in light hearted discourse?

You wish to assume, like so many jumping on the bandwagon, that Rafiq is telling the truth and Root and Ballance are both lying, as is Michael Vaughan, but how can you know that, particularly as Rafiq has now been shown to be far from perfect himself and has not been subjected to any form of cross examination?

I agree that it seems more likely that Rafiq is finding the story getting away from him a bit, hence the mixed and confused comments on Joe Root

 

[ThreeSixes]

I'm not sure what the import of your question is. I am saying that the inattention, poor research and easily avoided confusion is regrettably common where black players and individuals are concerned. I do not think that three different white players would have been pictured in a similar case. Player of the year? Less serious because of less damaging consequences but just the same in other regards.

Thanks for the response. I don't agree though that this incident is "regrettably common where black players and individuals are concerned".