The War on Drugs - Good /Bad? | Page 5 | Vital Football

The War on Drugs - Good /Bad?

Melon Donkey said:
Incredibly naive I'm afraid .

So the drug dealers at all levels will suddenly become law abiding citizens and gladly pay their taxes. No of course they won't. They will continue to be underground and make their money and leave the legal firms to pay their taxes and charge more than the underground market. There is always an underground market for everything.

The extra taxes will of course be directed by our wonderful governments straight to the NHS so they can deal with the huge increase in both medical and psychological patients from drug use. But yes of course the great British public can be trusted to be responsible when they are given free rein to smoke, inhale and inject themselves legally. After all they could be trusted to wear masks and not go to the beach when asked.

Lower crime?. Yes of course those who are criminally minded and users at the bottom of the chain will all of a sudden become law abiding citizens and have the disposable income so they don't need to burgle, rob, steal to buy their now legal (including tax) drugs . But of course they won't need to go legally buying because Mr law abiding drug dealer hasn't gone law abiding after all and is still punting it out underground like he always has to make the max profit.

Not saying it's working don't have answers but sure isn't what you say in my humble.
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If all drugs were legalised, would you take any of them?
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
The legalisation of Cannabis in some countries shows it can be done. No need to think you can't gradually do that here.
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It should be instantly done, it's significantly less harmful than alcohol. In fact it would be even safer when legalised. Currently you have no idea what's in it. If manufactured you will be able to vary the composition of THC, CBD and cannabinol precisely which will confer different types of highs and different types of benefits since it's THC which is the actual psychoactive part, whilst CBD is shown and/or is conjectured to be beneficial for many other things.
 
BodyButter said:
If all drugs were legalised, would you take any of them?
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No. I value my physical and mental health and I have no need or desire to artificially change who I am.

I am fortunate to be in the position to accept who I am , what I am, how I enjoy life and experiences without artificial influencing those things .

I say fortunate because unlike many who choose drugs they have had such a shit life that it is a way to escape and cope. I would like to think society can offer other ways for these to cope other than legalising poisons.
 
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Melon Donkey said:
No. I value my physical and mental health and I have no need or desire to artificially change who I am.

I am fortunate to be in the position to accept who I am , what I am, how I enjoy life and experiences without artificial influencing those things .

I say fortunate because unlike many who choose drugs they have had such a shit life that it is a way to escape and cope. I would like to think society can offer other ways for these to cope other than legalising poisons.
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Do you drink?

(And hopefully goes without saying, you aren't on trial, you don't have to answer!!!!)



I think those that will, will take drugs, no matter what.

I think you adequately demonstrate those who don't want to, won't, even if legal.

I guess if you look at it like a venn diagram, there would be a crossover of those who wouldn't who would and vice-versa... But surely not many.

For me, the key, therefore, is to educate properly, provide the proper grade/strength not cut up with all manner of nasties, cut out the gangsta/middle man and let people have proper access along with proper education on what they are doing.

The war on drugs simply has not worked, same as prostitution really, sweeping things under the carpet and filling the prisons with those that possibly could be helped, is a mess and very expensive.

Of course, there are all sorts of arguments to the contrary, but most of them are reflected in the current situation, a mess, lives being lost, gangster types making a fortune.

I'd rather it regulated and taxed.

OR

make drink and fags illegal also perhaps?

OR

Go far more hardline in punishment, death penalty for dealers, 3 strikes and you are out for people stealing to pay for their addictions etc.

Something needs doing, but no one in power, is capable of having a grown up conversation about it all, which is ironic, because 'half of them' are high as kites!
 
Got to go legal route for me. Not for all, and certainly not everything immediately.

But start with the less harmful, less addictive stuff - make it pure, make it safe - couple it with education, couple it with treatment and help - the tax would cover that, as would savings in Police, courts, prisons and being safer and pure, no doubt a shit load of NHS wastage saved as well.

Use it as a means to help those addicted on harder stuff as a secondary benefit by giving them a safer community to mix with. It would sideline the criminal side, but that's an overtime battle anyway.

You just move them out of the safer stuff as a start to help change attitudes, and in changing how it's cut, the danger, the damage, and even some of the more addictive tweaks that can be used - you are also effectively moving more people to social useage anyway and off the hardline addiction element which is a natural gateway to even stronger stuff 'if your dealer does you a favour'.

There are way too many positives for me to not do it, but of course, that doesn't simply mean handing out heroin, ketamine, and that ilk out to curious 12 year olds. It has to be a slow and steady long term plan and I still can't see why it couldn't run alongside reducing the strength of alcohol given some of the stuff you can buy these days, nor slowly fazing out the harmful and addictive elements of cigarettes as a more health conscious move forward.
 
The Fear said:
Do you drink?

(And hopefully goes without saying, you aren't on trial, you don't have to answer!!!!)



I think those that will, will take drugs, no matter what.

I think you adequately demonstrate those who don't want to, won't, even if legal.

I guess if you look at it like a venn diagram, there would be a crossover of those who wouldn't who would and vice-versa... But surely not many.

For me, the key, therefore, is to educate properly, provide the proper grade/strength not cut up with all manner of nasties, cut out the gangsta/middle man and let people have proper access along with proper education on what they are doing.

The war on drugs simply has not worked, same as prostitution really, sweeping things under the carpet and filling the prisons with those that possibly could be helped, is a mess and very expensive.

Of course, there are all sorts of arguments to the contrary, but most of them are reflected in the current situation, a mess, lives being lost, gangster types making a fortune.

I'd rather it regulated and taxed.

OR

make drink and fags illegal also perhaps?

OR

Go far more hardline in punishment, death penalty for dealers, 3 strikes and you are out for people stealing to pay for their addictions etc.

Something needs doing, but no one in power, is capable of having a grown up conversation about it all, which is ironic, because 'half of them' are high as kites!
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People take a very naive and simplistic view, it’s ok to have a drink but other drugs which are demonstrably safer or as bad as alcohol are “poison”. Ultimately many drugs, when safely manufactured, as opposed to made “on the street” can have both enjoyable and/ or therapeutic effects.

This is why we see cannabis prescribed for a number of conditions, ketamine based treatments prescribed to people with treatment resistant depression and ecstasy currently used in a number of clinical trials for depression.

We need to evolve a more considered view rooted in the science and in the data rather than infantile knee jerk stuff that “drugs are bad (but I love a few beers after work on a Friday)”.
 
The chemical hooks theory of addiction has been enormously damaging to the general public's understanding of addiction.

That's the one that says evil drug pushers get nieve people hooked on drugs through chemical addiction and it turns them into monsters.

The reality is that people take all kinds of legal and illegal drugs to combat mental health or stress issues. Rooney recently talked about binge drinking for days because of the pressure of being a teenage superstar.

Addicts often end up in prison because of their addiction. A much more compassionate and effective means of dealing with them would be drug treatment centres.
 
If legalised I would love nothing more to drop the occassional E or eat a wrap of mdma.
Unfortunately I know for a fact I'm in that kind of category of an idiot who can't control it so would snowball. As history has proved.

If legalised I worry about people who don't yet understand their weakness and start their journey on that ski slope.

But then again, it's that widely available if your going to take it, you will.

A difficult one isn't it.
 
BodyButter said:
The chemical hooks theory of addiction has been enormously damaging to the general public's understanding of addiction.

That's the one that says evil drug pushers get nieve people hooked on drugs through chemical addiction and it turns them into monsters.

The reality is that people take all kinds of legal and illegal drugs to combat mental health or stress issues. Rooney recently talked about binge drinking for days because of the pressure of being a teenage superstar.

Addicts often end up in prison because of their addiction. A much more compassionate and effective means of dealing with them would be drug treatment centres.
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Two of the very worst drugs one can become addicted to are alcohol and benzodiazepines. The reason for this is that if heavily addicted to either very specific procedures need to be followed else there is a high risk of death (if going gold turkey). These risks do not exist even for many class A drugs.

What makes it worse is that alcohol can be bought freely and benzodiazepines are still to this day regularly prescribed by GPs for issues ranging from insomnia to anxiety disorders.
 
colavfc said:
If legalised I would love nothing more to drop the occassional E or eat a wrap of mdma.
Unfortunately I know for a fact I'm in that kind of category of an idiot who can't control it so would snowball. As history has proved.

If legalised I worry about people who don't yet understand their weakness and start their journey on that ski slope.

But then again, it's that widely available if your going to take it, you will.

A difficult one isn't it.
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That's the thing, isn't it? The vast majority of people who want to take drugs will take them and people who don't want to take drugs won't take them regardless of their legal status.

What would change by legalising drugs is that the cartels and dealers would be cut out and the drugs would be clean. We'd also be able to treat addiction for the mental health issue it is rather than a criminal matter.
 
BodyButter said:
That's the thing, isn't it? The vast majority of people who want to take drugs will take them and people who don't want to take drugs won't take them regardless of their legal status.

What would change by legalising drugs is that the cartels and dealers would be cut out and the drugs would be clean. We'd also be able to treat addiction for the mental health issue it is rather than a criminal matter.
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Definitely the direction I would go. The war on drugs has not worked, it has caused gangs and ghettos, and every level of a drug from production to supply ends up with the drug being cut, so each level makes just that little more. The shit they cut the drugs with, can be beyond belief.

Should be legalised, properly dispensed, people should be able to have health checks, proper advice as to what it will/won't do to the body, and for any damage done, you should have to have private healthcare or some sort of health scheme where you pay the NHS

As you say, those that want to take drugs, will. Those that don't, won't all of a sudden want to, especially not if they were given the full, frank and specific facts on each drug. Might even put a few who want to take drugs off, if the right advice is given.... as opposed to some dodgy geezer saying 'these are fine, trust me'
 
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