The Universe and Religion n/g | Vital Football

The Universe and Religion n/g

T

Tarian

Vital Squad Member
Jerryattrick said:
And how did the original forces get there? A question atheists and scientists demand from the religious.

Scientists have no idea only a guess based on their latest knowledge. The yogic Sanskrit writings over 5000 yrs ago told of what we now call quantum physics so basically nobody knows f all but want to tell us their 'facts' from both sides both of which may or may not be true.
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For more context, see the next post.

So was the Question (Jerry: Correct me if I'm wrong).
What happened before the Big Bang ?
Was there "nothing", "emptiness" , whatever ?
There are no "facts" to answer this Question only best guesses.

Aside from whether I understood the Question properly, it occcurred to me that "their "facts" from both sides" isn't how most scientists approach such topics.

Scientists have "conjectures", "hypotheses" and "theories".
Each stage has a different amount of evidence.

And even with a "theory" supported by current evidence, there remains the possibility of new evidence.

But the lack of evidence for pre-Big Bang is not in itself evidence for the existence of god.

Why revive this ?
Three reasons:
1) The start of the universe is in itself "interesting".

2) Current knowledge and thought processes around the Big Bang is such that it is a good counter to the notion of "the science" as some immutable "fact".
More importantly, that most scientists are careful about what they say is a "fact".

3) To acquire knowledge or enlightenment requires dialogue - where the subject matter is challenged, not the "virtue" of the participants.

So if we can get through this topic, we can get through anything :oops:.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Things don't have to be true, they just need people to believe them. I think his posts are fascinating, it just shows how religions grow.

Nothing he has said is more nonsensical than an invisible being making the world from nothing in 6 days, and overseeing our day to day lives
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jokerman said:
Until you consider the alternative hypothesis -a self-generating burst of energy set in train a process which against all odds, and in the midst of zillions of busted flushes and blind alleys, gave rise to a self-conscious species cable of imbuing existence with meaning and moral significance. I lean towards this view in my quieter moments, but it strikes me as a much bigger miracle than the idea of a timeless, omniscient, all powerful, benevolent entity just saying let it be so.
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Tarian said:
Perhaps you could speak to a physicist / mathematician.
(...like my son) He has some succinct explanations. (I'll try and remember.....)

It comes down to the sheer magnitude of everything around us.

Whether it's the billions of years over which minute changes can occur - the vast majority failing, but some succeeding.

The mind-boggling scale of the universe. Then set that against sub-atomic particles.

Interactions ( at the sub-atomic level ) that took place billions of years ago - billions of light years apart.

Prior to big computers, even some scientists struggle to grasp the possibilities of the evolution of the Universe.
But now, one can plug in many different variables and run a billion iterations.

As above, the vast majority will result in nothing - or absurdities.....
.....but (IIRC) it is more than plausible that similar conditions to those of our Solar System exist elsewhere in the Universe - and hence intelligent life....
......which may be thousands of years ahead of us - or behind us....
....a snip in the life of the Universe.

In short everything around us just "is".
There is no need for a "guiding hand".

(and if there was, then he/she/it has a lot of poor outcomes to answer for.... )
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Anyone who thinks there is a god of any sort are absolute deluded fuckwits and I want nothing to do with them!
Nothing more to say on the subject!
 
Oh dear.....:wagging:
How about "mistaken" ?

So what was the state of the universe before the Big Bang ?
Any ideas ?
 
Some people speculated that the Universe will stop expanding, then due to gravity, would collapse in on itself (over billions of years)....
....creating the ultimate Black Hole - before a new Big Bang.
And the cycle would start again.....

But apparently the Universe is expanding with increasing speed - so cannot collapse.

So what was "before" the Big Bang ?
Apparently, that Question makes no sense.
"Before" there was no "time" - so there cannot be a "before".

How to make sense of that.....?o_O
 
Its like an atom trying to work out if they are an entity or part of a larger entity.

Humans need religion and something to belong to. Some peoples religion or god could indeed be atheism or science or woke politics, all are cults and religions based only on the inputs to a human brain.

There is no more actual evidence that a god exists than that the world developed in line with current scientific theory. Basically nobody know, but we do know that humans have been searching for or creating a god since first man.

How we love our religious ceremonies and observations.

Is this the latest religion?
 

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Tarian said:
For more context, see the next post.

So was the Question (Jerry: Correct me if I'm wrong).
What happened before the Big Bang ?
Was there "nothing", "emptiness" , whatever ?
There are no "facts" to answer this Question only best guesses.

Aside from whether I understood the Question properly, it occcurred to me that "their "facts" from both sides" isn't how most scientists approach such topics.

Scientists have "conjectures", "hypotheses" and "theories".
Each stage has a different amount of evidence.

And even with a "theory" supported by current evidence, there remains the possibility of new evidence.

But the lack of evidence for pre-Big Bang is not in itself evidence for the existence of god.

Why revive this ?
Three reasons:
1) The start of the universe is in itself "interesting".

2) Current knowledge and thought processes around the Big Bang is such that it is a good counter to the notion of "the science" as some immutable "fact".
More importantly, that most scientists are careful about what they say is a "fact".

3) To acquire knowledge or enlightenment requires dialogue - where the subject matter is challenged, not the "virtue" of the participants.

So if we can get through this topic, we can get through anything :oops:.
Click to expand...

Serious question, Tarian. Have you ever ingested any psychoactive or psychotropic substances? And if so, which ones?
 
My son said to me when he was 7 years old, "Dad, I don't believe in God, because if God made the Earth, who made the Dinosaurs?".
 
OneSirKeefy said:
Yes I do.

It’s turtles all the way down 👍
Click to expand...

I thought it was elephants and one giant turtle?

Actually to quote the greatest philosopher of all time: "The universe made up from a load of happy little accidents and from it a wonderful masterpiece is made"
 
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