The Tics vs The Addicks | Page 8 | Vital Football

The Tics vs The Addicks

  • Thread starter Victor Moses ;)
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Mighty Bongsmon said:
I’ve no doubt all that adds up to the “whole” so to speak but the major part is that they’re of a lower quality of player
And you’re exactly right in that the same thing can be said of all the sides at the bottom

I just don’t really think it stands up to scrutiny saying Wooton is better than were seeing because he played for Leeds in the championship 5 years ago. Or Darikwa was good before some really bad injuries
Players careers tail off due to age and injuries and just coz someone played at a higher level in the past doesn’t mean they’re capable of more than they’re showing (on a consistent basis) in the here and now
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Once again I agree with the majority of what you are saying. Players careers do go downhill with injury and age however the standard between the Championship and L1 is also lesser and as such they should be considered decent players at this level despite the age and injury problems. Had they been trying to resurrect their careers in the higher league I would totally agree with you but the fact that they have dropped down should at least give them a chance of recapturing their form at this level.

I think when the likes of Evans, Proctor and Lang are back in the side we will see a difference. I see Proctor as a decent target man with the ability to hold the ball and feed players running off him, I see Lang as the player to do that. I also think that a midfield of Ojo and Evans will give us some creativity and steel in a midfield that has been overrun too many times this season.

Having said all that I still think it will take a couple of games to show potential as the players once again get to know each other.
 
:cheers:
Mighty Bongsmon said:
I think we will have to agree to disagree
Even with the players you've used as examples of being better than our league position - Darikwa hadn't played in an ice age before joining us & just because a player was apparently good several years ago doesn't mean that they still are - age, injuries etc.. can all have an impact,
Wooton hadn't played at Championship level since 2016 and (whether through injury, suspensions or whatever) only appears to have been a bit part player with an average of 20ish appearances a season over the last since leaving Leeds.
I can't find any record of Ojo winning a player of the year award at Scunthorpe but I know that he got relegated from this division in 18/19.
Tilt won a player of the year award 3 years ago for Blackpool & had played once since 31st January 2020
For me you can't say a player is better than they are showing based on a handful of games & the fact that some of them played at a higher level several years ago.

And where you see a team not bothered I just see players who aren't good enough - It's not being not bothered that's made Jamie Jones drop clangers. It's not that that made 2 defenders run into each other in midweek against Charlton. Same for that game the other week when 2 defenders stood watching the ball (as did Jones) and allowed a forward to brush between them & poke it home late on - it's because they're not very good

As you mention organisation again it's ability - good players can stay focused & organised. These guys can do it in the odd game or in spurts in matches but then revert to type & switch off
I've no doubt motivation will play a part but playing well in phases only to either drop a clanger yourself or see a team mate do it will knock you. As does getting beat most weeks, as does falling behind, even as does going ahead & knowing that you keep throwing away leads. Again the better players can cope with that in the main, the poor ones can't

Injuries haven't helped, a restriction on squad size hasn't helped, administration hasn't helped but ultimately we're where the quality of our squad deserves to be - unfortunately
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There's is of course a level of natural declining ability with age and injury but we are talking about players ability completely collapsing all in unison in some games and then suddenly returning in unison in other games. It's a pattern that happens too often to dismiss the players as just not being good enough. Although some like you say Jones arent.

But we can agree to disagree.:cheers:
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Once again I agree with the majority of what you are saying. Players careers do go downhill with injury and age however the standard between the Championship and L1 is also lesser and as such they should be considered decent players at this level despite the age and injury problems. Had they been trying to resurrect their careers in the higher league I would totally agree with you but the fact that they have dropped down should at least give them a chance of recapturing their form at this level.

I think when the likes of Evans, Proctor and Lang are back in the side we will see a difference. I see Proctor as a decent target man with the ability to hold the ball and feed players running off him, I see Lang as the player to do that. I also think that a midfield of Ojo and Evans will give us some creativity and steel in a midfield that has been overrun too many times this season.

Having said all that I still think it will take a couple of games to show potential as the players once again get to know each other.
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Thing is there's no time left to "let em gel"
 
Who the fuck in their right mind gets rid of players that are getting to grips with the league and brings in ten donkeys in the January window?
And people talk about gelling.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Virtually all you are saying could be levelled at most of the teams at the bottom of any division. Players not good enough for the league.

However I tend to agree with some of what KDZ is saying in that some of the players we have brought in have shown the ability to play at higher levels prior to injury.

There have been bright spots this season but the overall state of play does show that there is a problem in getting them to play at a consistent level. My opinion on this is that we are struggling week in week out to put out an unchanged side and players are having to adjust their game every match to accommodate players coming in. Until we are able to settle the side down there will be misunderstandings between players and no doubt these will lead to goals at one end and balls going astray in front of goal at the other end.

This is being compounded by the amount of games we are playing each week not allowing time on the training ground and a general lack of coaching staff, at an appropriate level. I know KDZ has suggested that there will be coaching staff out there who are looking for employment but will they be equal or better than what we have and would they be willing to accept a week to week contract as that is most likely what would be on offer.
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I am not under the illusion that we'd be in a position to take on particulary well known names in our position on short term deals. But when Richardson is pretty much saying he physically cant do his job with his lack of staff - surely it's a no brainer to try and get in the best we can manage. You might not be getting proven cream of the crop but if the option is having no one and being unable to prepare for any game properly or take a chance on someone new or inexperienced or who's been out of the game. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I heard Cook is taking Garry Roberts to Pompey as a coach - surely worst case scenario he couldve been kept on as a coach here rather than being released as a player all those months ago. Caldwell has said he wants to come back - he'd probably be willing to get involved if asked. I imagine Boyce would and possibly some other resently retired players doing the badges waiting for their first job. Peter Reid was working for free for months as he wanted to just be involved last time we were in L1 maybe he could be tempted. Then you've got the coaching staff of recently sacked managers sitting and waiting for their boss to get a job to follow them - they may be willing to come in to get paid while they are waiting.

I think a lack of coaching staff is something we could've avoided. It's not an acceptable state of affairs if we believe it is costing us so dearly and we arent taking steps to address it immedietly.
 
Hampton said:
Malky McKay did - didn't end well 😉
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To be fair he signed some good players who were great for us Maguire, Ridgewell, Pennent, Pearce, Kim-Bo, Bong and some others lads who went on to be good players but didnt do it for us Ojo, Murphy, Clarke. There were a couple of other duds like McKay but Malkys signings werent half bad considering they were mostly frees and loans and 270k for Pearce was a bargain.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I am not under the illusion that we'd be in a position to take on particulary well known names in our position on short term deals. But when Richardson is pretty much saying he physically cant do his job with his lack of staff - surely it's a no brainer to try and get in the best we can manage. You might not be getting proven cream of the crop but if the option is having no one and being unable to prepare for any game properly or take a chance on someone new or inexperienced or who's been out of the game. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I heard Cook is taking Garry Roberts to Pompey as a coach - surely worst case scenario he couldve been kept on as a coach here rather than being released as a player all those months ago. Caldwell has said he wants to come back - he'd probably be willing to get involved if asked. I imagine Boyce would and possibly some other resently retired players doing the badges waiting for their first job. Peter Reid was working for free for months as he wanted to just be involved last time we were in L1 maybe he could be tempted. Then you've got the coaching staff of recently sacked managers sitting and waiting for their boss to get a job to follow them - they may be willing to come in to get paid while they are waiting.

I think a lack of coaching staff is something we could've avoided. It's not an acceptable state of affairs if we believe it is costing us so dearly and we arent taking steps to address it immedietly.
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I agree there are people out there and as you say the likes of Caldwell and Boyce may well be happy to come in on a temporary basis, the problem for me is the difference in coaching styles between Richardson and Caldwell. Both have differing opinions on how the game should be played and therefore different coaching styles. I think it might be difficult to just introduce a new coach and expect him to immediately grasp the way you play and succeed in coaching. That is the reason that managers like to keep their teams together when they change clubs, it's continuity and they are very selective about who they bring in.

Cook has brought in Gary Roberts, a player who he has worked with for a number of years at several clubs, someone who understands the way PC wants the game played, a player who has grown up with that coaching style. It is the reason he has also brought in Noel Hunt and will probably be looking at LR towards the end of this season. I think to be successful you need everyone around you singing off the same hymn sheet and bringing in random coaching staff who are effectively second best might not be a good idea, in my opinion.

I think that although LR is bemoaning the fact he is short of coaching staff he probably would not want to bring in coaches he had not worked with before as he would then have to "coach" them to work in his methods, something I doubt he has time for at present.
 
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