The Super League Discussion

[Greavswasthegreatest]

Norwich and Watford already promoted with weeks of the season still to go, Fulham and WBA shortly to be relegated.
Much has been said over the last week of the 'guaranteed status' and lack of competitiveness of the proposed Super League. Fact is though that there is nothing exciting about promotion and relegation between the PL and Championship. It is entirely predictable to the point of being boring, and has been that way for years.
What about a twelve team Premiership, all teams playing thirty three matches a season, one home, one away, and one at a neutral venue against each of the other teams. Three promotions and three relegations at the end of each season.
Now that really would be innovative, competitive and exciting. There would no doubt be six to eight promotion and relegation candidates every season.

Stop being logical with common sense mate....it is money not logic that dictates

 

[Spursex]

Joe Lewis's story of business growth from the start would be interesting.

he built his catering business u[p and then sold it, where it was meant that he'd get many 'city types' eating there, and he got to know them and then started dabbling in forex, did well, and was one of the big bet speculators on Black Monday; he took a massive position (which post this looked like forever a winner) and made it is said around £2 billion from the devaluation of the pound - to many I know in the city, he had a bigger position than George Soros (who it is believed he worked with and others to pile the pressure on the BOE and the British Gov to give up their market support.

That's when he made it big time. So for many he's always been a big-time speculator, not an investor - the last big investment he made pre-credit crunch into an American boutique bank went horribly wrong and he lost around £1.5 billion....when they went bust just a few weeks after.

 

[Spursex]

Norwich and Watford already promoted with weeks of the season still to go, Fulham and WBA shortly to be relegated.
Much has been said over the last week of the 'guaranteed status' and lack of competitiveness of the proposed Super League. Fact is though that there is nothing exciting about promotion and relegation between the PL and Championship. It is entirely predictable to the point of being boring, and has been that way for years.
What about a twelve team Premiership, all teams playing thirty three matches a season, one home, one away, and one at a neutral venue against each of the other teams. Three promotions and three relegations at the end of each season.
Now that really would be innovative, competitive and exciting. There would no doubt be six to eight promotion and relegation candidates every season.

Parachute payments make the Championship predictable and unbalanced.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

The concept of the Superleague needs tweaking to suit the other leagues. The promotion / relegation issue needs some creative thinking. The huge financial benefits needs to be filtered down the leagues via the Superleague, it needs to be contributive not exploitative.

 

[Pompey Yid]

Norwich and Watford already promoted with weeks of the season still to go, Fulham and WBA shortly to be relegated.
Much has been said over the last week of the 'guaranteed status' and lack of competitiveness of the proposed Super League. Fact is though that there is nothing exciting about promotion and relegation between the PL and Championship. It is entirely predictable to the point of being boring, and has been that way for years.
What about a twelve team Premiership, all teams playing thirty three matches a season, one home, one away, and one at a neutral venue against each of the other teams. Three promotions and three relegations at the end of each season.
Now that really would be innovative, competitive and exciting. There would no doubt be six to eight promotion and relegation candidates every season.

Excuse me SAJ, very good but way to easy mate, so not going to happen, big bucks might also have a say, cos that "rules ok"

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

The concept of the Superleague needs tweaking to suit the other leagues. The promotion / relegation issue needs some creative thinking. The huge financial benefits needs to be filtered down the leagues via the Superleague, it needs to be contributive not exploitative.

The whole point of the Super League from the perspective of its founder members is that they get to keep the lion's share of the revenue - the revenue, that they would argue, they create.

And they want their financial interests safeguarded. So the principle of founding members not being relegated is integral to that plan.

They also argue that the real value of the Super league - and hence the revenue generated - is from the big clubs playing each other. That's what the football world want to see (their view).

In this scenario, whatever the PR may suggest, I don't see too much revenue trickling down the chain.

The alternative - and I suspect this is where it is going to be played out - is for the governing bodies - FIFA, UEFA, Premier League etc. - to relinquish some/all control of the money generated in football. And for the Super League clubs to have a much bigger cut of the money they generate and a say in the distribution of that revenue.

 

[Spursex]

The whole point of the Super League from the perspective of its founder members is that they get to keep the lion's share of the revenue - the revenue, that they would argue, they create.

And they want their financial interests safeguarded. So the principle of founding members not being relegated is integral to that plan.

They also argue that the real value of the Super league - and hence the revenue generated - is from the big clubs playing each other. That's what the football world want to see (their view).

In this scenario, whatever the PR may suggest, I don't see too much revenue trickling down the chain.

The alternative - and I suspect this is where it is going to be played out - is for the governing bodies - FIFA, UEFA, Premier League etc. - to relinquish some/all control of the money generated in football. And for the Super League clubs to have a much bigger cut of the money they generate and a say in the distribution of that revenue.

The backdrop does need to be taken into account, the PL clubs are now desperately hoping the media deal can be continued as is and that there is no need to renegotiate, because if it is done that way again, the current predictions are that the new deal(s) will be £900 mill less than it has been.

It's understanding that this is going to happen all across Europe and watching UEFA taking 55% of CL revenues to do whatever they like with (i.e. pet projects) that the top clubs hate - UEFA was once a governance body, it is now a business that lives off of the top clubs.

It pours money into eastern Europe, which is how/why Cerafin got the top job - the top jobs in UEFA are bad vast sums - way beyond what their daily duties are/should be.

It's simple, the clubs know that without uefa they should and could strike their own media deals and still cascade money down the leagues - but of course it would be primarily the leagues in Western Europe - which it should be as they are the vast majority of the generators of the funds.

There is a dark poltical underbelly to UEFA now and at the heart of that underbelly are the Russians and their now defacto control, but that is a whole other story.

 

[muttley]

The backdrop does need to be taken into account, the PL clubs are now desperately hoping the media deal can be continued as is and that there is no need to renegotiate, because if it is done that way again, the current predictions are that the new deal(s) will be £900 mill less than it has been.

It's understanding that this is going to happen all across Europe and watching UEFA taking 55% of CL revenues to do whatever they like with (i.e. pet projects) that the top clubs hate - UEFA was once a governance body, it is now a business that lives off of the top clubs.

It pours money into eastern Europe, which is how/why Cerafin got the top job - the top jobs in UEFA are bad vast sums - way beyond what their daily duties are/should be.

It's simple, the clubs know that without uefa they should and could strike their own media deals and still cascade money down the leagues - but of course it would be primarily the leagues in Western Europe - which it should be as they are the vast majority of the generators of the funds.

There is a dark poltical underbelly to UEFA now and at the heart of that underbelly are the Russians and their now defacto control, but that is a whole other story.

So if the broadcasting companies do reduce by 10-20% it should be an absolute given that the clubs get the rights to stream their own games in parallel. They need to be able to make up the shortfall.

Football fans are very comfortable paying their club to watch football through the turnstiles. That direct consumption model should also be available to the TV and web viewers now all of the technology exists. I paid £9.99 to watch the Spurs pre-season back in the autumn. My choice to give my tenner to THFC.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

It is clear the Superleague needs to make the concept more palatable to the fans. It needs to kill the rumours its about greed and ensure grass roots and lower league football will benefit.

 

[Pompey Yid]

It is clear the Superleague needs to make the concept more palatable to the fans. It needs to kill the rumours its about greed and ensure grass roots and lower league football will benefit.

For me Nick, this rumour all about greed, is the bloody media, Sky n BT, one side of the story being told by them, there is always 2 sides, to alienate the, believe everything by them, fans against their relevant Clubs.

I have said/suggested earlier that I believed it was about the "greed, corruption, big brother, line our own pockets Cub" AKA UEFA. Simple as that.

 

[Spursex]

So if the broadcasting companies do reduce by 10-20% it should be an absolute given that the clubs get the rights to stream their own games in parallel. They need to be able to make up the shortfall.

Football fans are very comfortable paying their club to watch football through the turnstiles. That direct consumption model should also be available to the TV and web viewers now all of the technology exists. I paid £9.99 to watch the Spurs pre-season back in the autumn. My choice to give my tenner to THFC.

The problem is in the very existence of the PL itself; contractually no club can go it alone, unless all the PL clubs get their share; hence why the fundamental basis of the PL is that IT not the clubs own ALL the media rights and derivations thereof...

Hopefully, the new exec will have the smarts to look at how to make a direct pay model could work, but so far the media companies have backed them into a corner by threatening to walk away if they ever do that...so its not as simple a service to bring into existence as may first appear.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

It is clear the Superleague needs to make the concept more palatable to the fans. It needs to kill the rumours its about greed and ensure grass roots and lower league football will benefit.

You're missing the point. The whole concept of the Super League is that it is 'super'. It is necessarily elitist and probably exclusive. I'm not saying I agree with it but that's what the concept is.

What you're asking for already exists in some shape or form, for better or for worse.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

What needs to be done to bring the fans on board ?
Big Euro nights at our new stadium.
No increase in ticket prices.
Financial gain to be invested into the team.The prospect of big signings.
Filtering down of profits to lower leagues and youth football.
An alternative to the closed shop scenario which allows promotion, as an example every 4 years based on performance. But the time frame is just an example not a recommendation.
Perhaps pay to view TV benefiting the clubs individually more.

I suspect the Superleague guys will be looking at different strategies. But which ones would work, if any ?

 

[xvausch]

Watching some pundits react to this as if it were some genocidal atrocity is so rich! Some of it is really embarrassing.

Twisting this into "The death of all domestic leagues across Europe!" or the dreaded "This destroys the fundamental basis of the pyramid of football!!" Hahahah, I mean, really. Im dyin over here


Its like a docudrama on cultish programming.

If the non-domestic league euro tourneys are re-organized, and some of The Continent's top teams choose not to participate in the CL any longer, and so other teams get the opportunity for euro-ball, and trophies, and that's the ruin of the game?? And being those top teams arent playing their league matches with an eye to a top4, or 6 placement, they'd all be competing like bastards for the TOP 1 PLACE, which would make all domestic season's more exciting and meaningful.

But hey, what do I know.

I mean it could happen that way. It could be NOT a grand conspiracy to wrestle all the money and control of the game away for everyone else. I suppose it could be some collusion to destroy the glory of the game and turn it all into one big commercial. Could be.

Just doesn't seem nefarious to me. But hey, I've lived in America a long time.

And maybe, it would actually do all the things those clubs said they were trying to accomplish. For the betterment of the game. Could be.

I'm not gonna join y'all that are suddenly rapacious defenders of the goons & criminals running the football governing bodies, 'cause that's what alot of dickheads were in fact out there doing. If it comes down to siding with the "greedy football clubs" vs "corrupt goons of world football", it aint gonna take me a half-second to choose my side. I already have.

.

 

[Spursex]

‘Brave and valiant’ - The baffling view in Spain of Super League turncoat Florentino Perez

The Super League was regarded as more intriguing than controversial in Spain


By Rik Sharma in Madrid 26 April 2021 • 10:16am

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez was in the middle of a chaotic week for football Credit: REUTERS

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez is a pariah in the UK for his failed European Super League insurrection - but within Spain he is still the one pulling the strings.
Perez has been synonymous with power for too long for this tumultuous week to be more than a setback. The 74-year-old is damaged but not defeated.
The Super League was regarded as more intriguing than controversial in Spain, in part because the major sports pages are closely allied to Real Madrid or Barcelona. For Madrid publications Marca and AS, waging war on Perez does not make sense. There is too much to lose, especially after he was re-elected president of his club for the fifth consecutive term earlier in April. Easy, when you run unopposed after changing club statutes to shut out challengers. He is protected, insulated, both within Madrid and outside it. Madrid and Barcelona each have one billion euros worth of debt to clear, and it is apparent that a Super League would be one way to do it.
Real Madrid supporters have been cold-blooded about developments. As record 13-time champions of Europe, some believe they have outgrown their pond and deserve better competition, facing Manchester United, not Elche, Juventus, not Levante.
As fans raged outside Stamford Bridge and Elland Road and the plot was torpedoed, Birmingham City defender Mikel San Jose, formerly of Athletic Bilbao mused: “I have always been fascinated by the football culture in England. Today you have done it again.” The Spaniard was not alone. La Liga president Javier Tebas noted the Super League ringleaders did not understand the strength of feeling English supporters have. The uprising of English fans was greeted with admiration but it was not replicated on the Iberian peninsula.
“FC Barcelona is our life, not your toy. No to the Super League!” read a banner draped on the fence around Camp Nou. Yet this was the sole sign of discontent at the country’s two most hallowed footballing cathedrals.
The rebel league was far less toxic in Spain. “Perez has been brave and valiant,” argued former Real Madrid defender and manager Jose Antonio Camacho, on the other hand. “Everyone deems him responsible, but the responsibility is divided with eleven other presidents."
La Liga teams not invited to Perez’s project wore t-shirts ahead of matches last week, demanding Spain’s giants “Earn it,” but that was all, until the one player who always talks, talked.

Levante players wear protest t-shirts against the European Super League Credit: GETTY IMAGES
“Do we want Sevilla, Valencia, Everton, Leicester, Napoli… to disappear?” asked Barcelona defender Gerard Pique, while admitting new president Joan Laporta will make whatever he thinks is the best decision for the club.
Barcelona supporters were less in favour than their Madrid counterparts - especially with Perez as the league’s chief - but after Laporta labelled the Super League a ‘necessity’, it subdued potential discontent.
As most of the 12 founder clubs pulled out, enemies Madrid and Barcelona together clung to their money-spinning dream, convinced a project of this ilk is the only solution to deepening debt. “They have to control costs instead of increasing income,” said Tebas, but it fell upon deaf ears.
La Liga and its clubs rejected the Super League but deemed damage to Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico’s reputation sufficient punishment, indicating a willingness to keep some semblance of peace.
“Maybe we didn’t explain it well enough,” was all Perez would concede when questioned about the collapse; he is not used to losing. He believes that while the oil-fuelled clubs like Paris Saint-Germain and Manchester City can operate without heavy restrictions, Madrid must generate more revenue to compete. That is the way he solves problems.
The Galacticos side was built by selling a plot of land Madrid trained on to the city, generating half a billion euros in 2001, a price believed to be over the odds, a helping hand from the people’s pocket.
What Perez is afraid of is failure on the pitch, the only place he can be hurt. He can absorb the blows dealt to him this week and carry on, but when fans return to the revamped Santiago Bernabeu, they will demand to see the world’s best players. That explains the cognitive dissonance when he says Madrid will be dead in 2024 without the Super League, while not ruling out signing PSG’s Kylian Mbappe.
Cries of “Perez, resign,” have rung around the Bernabeu before but supporters are quickly pacified with another Champions League trophy for the collection. Can the club be that badly run if it keeps racking up silverware and expanding its legend? Madrid fans allowed Perez to make himself a permanent president of their club. They will not stand against him trying to swallow football whole, not when it would make them king.

 

[Departed]

Winning.


As Charlie Sheen remarked.

 

[Spursex]

Winning.


As Charlie Sheen remarked.

For those who either don't recall his meltdown or even those who misunderstand his 'winning' bandwagon..

Actor Charlie Sheen gave new meaning to winner and winning this year. Once upon a time, the verb win meant "to be victorious." But Sheen constantly used the word during his slow, painful walk off the sanity plank — styling himself as a "winner" and his lifestyle choices as "winning" as he spoke of his "warlock brain" and "tiger blood." He lost his role on the hit sitcom Two and a Half Men. He sold out shows for his Violent Torpedo of Truth live tour, which bombed. And he came to physically resemble a pasty raisin. Though he tried to account for the error of his ways months later, Charlie Sheen had solidified a definition for the term that goes something like this: winning (v.):

"participating in an ostensibly drug-induced, highly public flameout, during which one loses an incredibly lucrative job and, subsequently, the respect of the American people." Or more, succinctly: winning (v.): losing.

 

[Real Deal]

He gets a lot of stick but he made the show Two and a half men. Ashton ain't fit to lace his boots.

 

[Spursex]

The value of rights if they have to be renegotiated rather than extended could plummet, BT Sport lose around £800 million every year and has never made a profit from the sports division - it just can't make it pay as they massively over-paid for the PL and CL rights....

So now it's up for sale. Who will buy it and why will be interesting to see, but whoever does, they'll do it because they believe they can drive down media fees both in the CL and the PL.

With the potential loss of a rival to SKY in the bidding war, all of sudden the idea that the PL could lose around £1-1.5 billon in income shows why the big 6 were/are thinking of breaking away?

 

[Departed]

The value of rights if they have to be renegotiated rather than extended could plummet, BT Sport lose around £800 million every year and has never made a profit from the sports division - it just can't make it pay as they massively over-paid for the PL and CL rights....

So now it's up for sale. Who will buy it and why will be interesting to see, but whoever does, they'll do it because they believe they can drive down media fees both in the CL and the PL.

With the potential loss of a rival to SKY in the bidding war, all of sudden the idea that the PL could lose around £1-1.5 billon in income shows why the big 6 were/are thinking of breaking away?

Depends if Apple, Amazon or another content monster show up to the auction.