The Super John McGinn Thread | Page 54 | Vital Football

The Super John McGinn Thread

Melon Donkey said:
Westwood levels of being undroppable despite being pants at the moment .

Trouble is there isn’t a busting lot of alternatives.
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Well it's the area where we actually do have a few players unlike defence or attack.
He's really trying but the more he tries the worse he gets, constantly giving the ball away
 
Our central midfield is just basically insipid in the creativity dept of the game.

Luiz, Mcginn, Marv,
Ramsey/sanson (early to assess but the signs are not exactly positive).

How many assists, how many goal scoring opportunities do they create. Where are the Dougie worldies he hit or tried last season now ?. He is not even getting into those positions. Where is the Mcginn scoring against. spuds , popping up in the box.

They are all the same player doing the same thing.

As I have said before Barkley was the SJ alternative this season and that , through no fault of Smith’s has been a disaster. Barkley has let us and himself down. We all thought that was the marquee signing , albeit loan , to take the pressure off Jack and get us through the times we didn’t have SJ, add to the creativity.

Hard work and running, SJM has that in spades, but in this league quality wins out.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Our central midfield is just basically insipid in the creativity dept of the game.

Luiz, Mcginn, Marv,
Ramsey/sanson (early to assess but the signs are not exactly positive).

How many assists, how many goal scoring opportunities do they create. Where are the Dougie worldies he hit or tried last season now ?. He is not even getting into those positions. Where is the Mcginn scoring against. spuds , popping up in the box.

They are all the same player doing the same thing.

As I have said before Barkley was the SJ alternative this season and that , through no fault of Smith’s has been a disaster. Barkley has let us and himself down. We all thought that was the marquee signing , albeit loan , to take the pressure off Jack and get us through the times we didn’t have SJ, add to the creativity.

Hard work and running, SJM has that in spades, but in this league quality wins out.
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I wonder if we have reined in the midfielders getting further forward in order to make us more defensively solid.

I think Super Johns strength is bursting into the box and getting forward , but like you said he is not doing that and it's probably to his detriment.

Probably the answer is the balance and mix of the midfield is not right.
 
Quality does make the difference to the top half teams in the prem. McGinn is an excellent work horse, but without much high end quality .
Pace is another key attribute in this league.
 
SJM is being asked to do the job the team requires, not necessarily one which sees him at his best. Think that's fair enough.

As for creativity, we have wing-backs who can do that. In spite of yesterday's loss, I thought Cash showed what we have been missing down the right hand side.
 
Westwood is a good name to see in this thread as he's no better than Westwood at this level. I actually thought he had a better game last night but he's not the answer in central midfield if we want to really progress I'm afraid.
 
its a shame , i thought McGinn was going to be good enough for top half prem, still might be but i'm not so sure anymore , not fast enough and basically not good enough. Too many of his passes and through balls go astray or are overhit etc
 
I thought he was pretty good in patches last night. He was our best central midfielder on the night. Not sure how much that says, though.
 
Silhillvilla said:
its a shame , i thought McGinn was going to be good enough for top half prem, still might be but i'm not so sure anymore , not fast enough and basically not good enough. Too many of his passes and through balls go astray or are overhit etc
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He just doesn't look after the ball and keep possession, which is basic in this league. Same with trez. Both try their best but just not working out lately.
 
sirdennis said:
Probably the answer is the balance and mix of the midfield is not right.
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This. 100% for me. I always think about that Leicester team that won the league when I think about balanced teams. Granted they had Kante in the middle, but Drinkwater (hard to believe) and Okasaki in the advanced role were the ideal balance in that midfield. Three very different players, but they complimented each other. You could argue, quite easily, that we currently have better players than two of those three, yet the balance just isn't right.
 
1958Villan said:
McGinn is, if you think about it, being played out of position. His best most productive position is further forward. At present he's being shoe-horned into a position that doesn't suit him because he's too good to leave out.
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He was at his best when playing alongside Grealish in a pair, with, ironically, Glen Whelan holding behind them. Modern manager-speak referred to them as two-eights in front of a six. The problem is that, currently neither Douglas or Marv have the ability/experience to play that holding role alone.
 
An we sadly rejigged for so long (for no benefit) with Barkley and we've more pivoted to finding a Barkley fill in with no Jack, rather than going back to what we know is actually capable of working.
 
gmvillan said:
He was at his best when playing alongside Grealish in a pair, with, ironically, Glen Whelan holding behind them. Modern manager-speak referred to them as two-eights in front of a six. The problem is that, currently neither Douglas or Marv have the ability/experience to play that holding role alone.
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If we got and kept Hause fit, or got another centreback, I think Konsa could play the holding midfield role. The advantage of Konza in that position would be both full/wing backs, could be up field at the same time as Konza could step back and make a three man defence.
Luis, no matter how good a footballer he might be, is wasted as a dm, like McGinn he needs to be further forward, or as a box-to-box player.
Marvellous will be a decent, maybe even a really good dm, in the years ahead but, he couldn't step back into the middle of a three man defence.
 
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