Oh dear . You don't get it do you .That period of our history has had a long lasting effect on communities up and down the country .Steel ,coal ship building and the rest of the manufacturing industries brought prosperity to the country and to us ,the working classes .It was taken away in a brutal dictorial fashion and replaced by private marketers and city investors that hold us all by the balls and squeeze when they need some more cash . That's why the 'strike breakers' are not liked by those who hold principals and care about the welfare of this country and the normal working classes that are the majority of the population .
The Stagnentnet
- Thread starter The Electric Banana
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Oh dear . You don't get it do you .That period of our history has had a long lasting effect on communities up and down the country .Steel ,coal ship building and the rest of the manufacturing industries brought prosperity to the country and to us ,the working classes .It was taken away in a brutal dictorial fashion and replaced by private marketers and city investors that hold us all by the balls and squeeze when they need some more cash . That's why the 'strike breakers' are not liked by those who hold principals and care about the welfare of this country and the normal working classes that are the majority of the population .
hulloutpost
Vital Champions League
Can we talk about Brexit, that's more topical 
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
All those off-topic threads. Coming over here, taking over our board.
NorthNottsImp
Vital Reserves Team
I am Lincoln born but live in Mansfield. We have all lost industries over the years. Theirs was coal mining, ours was heavy engineering. Most Stags fans I know are good people. The idiots on Slagsnet are typical meatheads. Let's do them over and do the talking on the pitch. UTI
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
Yes, I get it very well thanks. You have a different opinion to me but some of your language is, well, risible. "Brutal" "Dictatorial". That government, good or bad, won three consecutive elections.
Loss of traditional jobs was (and still is) the result of technological advances and competition from emerging economies. This has been the case throughout history and has affected every industrialised nation. It's lifted hundreds of millions of people in other parts of the world out of abject poverty, real poverty. And we can't ignore the effect of union instransigence and weak management in UK industry during the 50s, 60s and 70s.
Still the miners get treated as the rock starts of the union movement. Where were the miners when textile workers lost their jobs in the 70s, or jobs were lost by steelworkers, dockers, car workers, shipbuilders, or (more pertinent to Lincolnians) in heavy engineering? Everyone of a certain age knows the names Rustons, Ruston Bucyrus, Robeys, Clayton Dewandre, Smith Clayton Forge. Most of the jobs there were shed way before 1984. Do you remember NUM support for any of those?
And so, for that matter, had mining jobs disappeared as the graphic I posted about coal production shows. Even the NUM's own website admitted that Wilson's Labour government "decimated" (their word) the industry.
Also from the NUM's own history referring to the 60s "Central Government seemed determined to smash Britain's coal industry. Other European governments were decimating their coal industries as well."
A moderate like Gormley knew that trend was inevitable, but a revolutionary communist like Scargill, with his immense ego the size of Yorkshire, had grander plans for himself.
Did the Thatcher government deny the plans to close mines? Yes. Were the police politicised during the strike? Yes. Those are not things any of Thatcher's fans should be proud of, especially the latter.
In reality the further closures only continued the trend seen under Wilson and Callaghan.
Socialist France had no coal mines left at all by 2004. Are you going to blame Thatcher for that too?
Ironically, if coal mining was a major industry in the UK today, it would be Momentum and the Green Party who would be trying to shut it down in order to save the planet.
Meanwhile the depleted and hard-up NUM has had to try and prise Scargill out of his Barbican flat which he thinks he should have for life. And the working class "hero" didn't get much traction when he tried to use democratic means to get elected to parliament did he?
Neither you or I are going to change our views one bit, but don't try and tell me that mine aren't because I don't have principles or care about the welfare of the country.
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
I'm not sure why those involved in leading a movement in one era-defining event should be dismissed because they didn't make a similar efforts elsewhere in previous decades. That's a red herring argument.
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
My point is the miners demanded assistance from other unions. They didn't offer that assistance to others in the immediate period prior to their own actions.
I worked for one of the companies on that list when I first left school. In 1978 it had 1200 employees. By 1982 it had a little more than half that number.
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
Right. So because they didn't assist others means their legitimate cause, and the injustice and state violence they faced, should be dismissed.
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
Did you read my actual post Graeme? I dealt with pretty much what I want to say there. However, the miners always considered themselves some sort of special case where everyone else was somehow duty-bound to support them, despite them offering no support to those in other industries.
I'm not sure what you mean by injustice?
And as for the state violence, there was certainly some of that which I definitely do not defend, it set an appalling precedent. However that wasn't one-sided, was it?
And to go back to my previous point, when miners were intimidating other workers at, just for the sake of argument, places like Orgreave and Ferrybridge, those weren't NUM members.
Sorry to disappoint Oldguard but I have never been a Sun reader. I must add though that dear old BB has blown your red eyed version of 1980s British history to pieces with his concise recalling of events.
A truly strange graph, it seems to suggest that coal output was unaffected by the 1984/5 strike.
Try this one -
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
It's one the BBC used, it was prepared by the ONS to remove all strike years to show the trend.
From the same article
The decline in output, in percentages:
11 years of Thatcher: 33%
11 years before Thatcher: 45%
11 years after Thatcher (Major and Blair): 72%
11 years of New Labour (Blair and Brown): 64%
