The retained list

[Croozey]

The early rules of the game said- ‘The goalkeeper may, within his own half of the field of play, use his hands, but shall not carry the ball.’
A top keeper at the time- Leigh Roose who played for Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton and Celtic came up with an idea, within the rules, where he would bounce the ball, while running up to the half way line and then deliver the ball into the opposition box from there. That rule was changed in 1912. to “The goalkeeper may, within his own penalty area, use his hands, but shall not carry the ball.”

So football back then was a different game to now. Formations evolve dependent on many factors. 1-1-8, 1-2-7 and 2-2-6 were the main formations used until then.

Up to the 1925, 2-3-5 was the dominant formation, the centre half played in front of 2 full backs- like a defensive midfielder. a 2-3-5 formation. He'd be in the centre of the 3, with a Right Half and Left Half either side If you ever player table football, that is the formation the players are traditionally set up as.
In 1925 the FA introduced a new rule that changed everything. The Offside rule. Teams couldn't afford to use so many forwards.
In the 30's Arsenal began playing a 3-3-4 and had great success, playing an offside trap and counter attacking football.
I think it would be interesting to watch a game played by todays players using the rules of 1900 say. and the heavy leather football.

 

[Bazzzer]

In 1925 the FA introduced a new rule that changed everything. The Offside rule. Teams couldn't afford to use so many forwards.

The Offside Law was introduced in 1866 and changed in 1925.

I don't really see how these alleged 1-1-8 and 1-2-7 etc formations could have worked. Especially if two teams lined up like that.

A quick flick through Nannestads' Who's Who shows that 19th century players were described as left back, centre half, left half and so on, positions which would be incompatible with the freakish formations.

 

[Imphistorian]

In the 1880s newspaper reports generally list players as goal, backs, half-backs and forwards. Early association football (1870s) was very different in style to today, so the main role of attacking players was to dribble with the ball as far as they could go before another player took over. There wasn't a great deal of passing, so a 2-2-6 formation was very common.

After the game progressed into the 1900s not every team played a rigid 2-3-5 and then many clubs switched their centre half from centre midfield to defender following the 1920s change in the offside law. Clubs in the lower divisions and Scotland weren't so enthusiastic about the 'third back' so they often stayed with the old formation. In the 1950s some clubs tweaked things - for example Don Revie was used as a deep lying centre forward for a while.

There were always variations on the standard 2-3-5 set up, up until it became obsolete.

 

[stokeimp]

I started watching during the traditional 2-3-5 line up, and seem to link the European teams, such as Real Madrid, leading the way with 4-2-4, which as Ian said, presumably stemmed from Brazil. I also remember the Centre "Half" becoming a Centre "Back". Maybe that was associated with a more defensive approach to the game. That probably started early 60s - I remember a dreadful game at Sincil Bank against (I think) Gillingham, who had started to adopt such tactics, continually passing the ball back to their goalie - an overweight Bobby Smith (ex Spurs) was playing for them

 

[hulloutpost]

I started watching during the traditional 2-3-5 line up, and seem to link the European teams, such as Real Madrid, leading the way with 4-2-4, which as Ian said, presumably stemmed from Brazil. I also remember the Centre "Half" becoming a Centre "Back". Maybe that was associated with a more defensive approach to the game. That probably started early 60s - I remember a dreadful game at Sincil Bank against (I think) Gillingham, who had started to adopt such tactics, continually passing the ball back to their goalie - an overweight Bobby Smith (ex Spurs) was playing for them

It must have been a bad game for it to have lodged in your memory for nearly 60 years! I'm just happy to remember the great games from the last decade

 

[simes69]

It must have been a bad game for it to have lodged in your memory for nearly 60 years! I'm just happy to remember the great games from the last decade

Home games against Gillingham traditionally aren't the best!

 

[stokeimp]

It must have been a bad game for it to have lodged in your memory for nearly 60 years! I'm just happy to remember the great games from the last decade

I think it was memorable being the first such game we'd seen - ie unapologetic focus on defence rather than attack - and Gillingham were among the first proponents - certainly at our level. Certainly must have been bad - there weren't many highlights in my first few years watching the Imps, which is why our win against Newcastle is still a highlight in my mind

 

[Merthyr Imp]

II remember a dreadful game at Sincil Bank against (I think) Gillingham, who had started to adopt such tactics, continually passing the ball back to their goalie - an overweight Bobby Smith (ex Spurs) was playing for them

It was Brighton who Bobby Smith played for at Sincil Bank in the 1964/65 season after Spurs amazed everybody by selling him to a Fourth Division club for £5,000.

Gillingham, though, were certainly notorious for their defensive tactics in the 1963/64 season when they won the Fourth Division championship and they set a new record for the division of only 30 goals conceded. This wasn't beaten until Colin Murphy's side let in only 25 in 1980/81.

Prior to the start of the 1965/66 season City signed half of Gillingham's back four from their record-breaking season - Geoff Hudson and Alec Farrall - but they were rather less effective for us.

 

[stokeimp]

It was Brighton who Bobby Smith played for at Sincil Bank in the 1964/65 season after Spurs amazed everybody by selling him to a Fourth Division club for £5,000.

Gillingham, though, were certainly notorious for their defensive tactics in the 1963/64 season when they won the Fourth Division championship and they set a new record for the division of only 30 goals conceded. This wasn't beaten until Colin Murphy's side let in only 25 in 1980/81.

Prior to the start of the 1965/66 season City signed half of Gillingham's back four from their record-breaking season - Geoff Hudson and Alec Farrall - but they were rather less effective for us.

Thanks for that - obviously getting two games mixed up - both playing in blue?

What an incredible defensive record that was - just looked up the league table for that season. Lost 1 at home, but an average home score of 4-1. Most home crowds only 3 or 4000 - how things have changed - crowds and results (tho now a league higher)!!

 

[Impalex]

Great thread this; excellent read!

 

[Jules]

Great thread this; excellent read!

This is the thing. I don't mind threads going off in a different direction once they are as good as dead, but the issue I have is when threads turn into a topic that isn't football, such as politics, or when things become abusive.

There is a separate forum for non-football political matters on this site and there is no place for any form of abuse on either of the forums on this website.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Re formations, as Imphistorian has mentioned, following the 1920s change in the offside law the centre half was dropped back to play between the two full backs and became known as the 'stopper'.

To digress a bit, nowadays the goalkeeper often gets referred to as the 'stopper', but in my day it was the centre half - also referred to as the 'pivot', because the defence pivoted around him. The goalkeeper was usually referred to as the 'custodian' and the centre forward as the 'leader', because he led the line. Look at any old match reports for some examples!

Anyway, after the 1920s change what was known as the 'WM' formation became popular. This could be rendered as 3-2-2-3: two full backs and a centre half would mark two wingers and the centre forward while the two half backs would battle it out with the two inside forwards in midfield.

I think this lasted until 4-2-4 came in, and has been said, England won the World Cup with no wingers in a 4-4-2 formation.

Graham Taylor's 1975/76 formation, by the way was really 4-4-2 (although the difference between that and 4-2-4 is sometimes debatable) - John Fleming and Alan Harding were the wide men, and two out of Percy Freeman, John Ward and Peter Graham were the two strikers. Fleming was more of a wide right player than an out-and-out winger like Dick Krzywycki who often filled in for him.

 

[stokeimp]

Graham Taylor's 1975/76 formation, by the way was really 4-4-2 (although the difference between that and 4-2-4 is sometimes debatable) - John Fleming and Alan Harding were the wide men, and two out of Percy Freeman, John Ward and Peter Graham were the two strikers. Fleming was more of a wide right player than an out-and-out winger like Dick Krzywycki who often filled in for him.

Don't forget my all time favourite Imps player, Dave Smith!!

 

[Impalex]

Don't forget my all time favourite Imps player, Dave Smith!!

Who could possibly forget him?

An abiding memory of him was the day he got married yet played a (home) game for the Imps that afternoon. To say that he was 'off form' (unheard of in his case) would be to put it mildly, but he got away with it amidst some rather funny comments from certain fans enquiring if he was saving his energy for later use!

 

[Oldshepherd Imp]

Don't forget my all time favourite Imps player, Dave Smith!!

Truly a great player, can only wonder what he would have been worth in todays transfer market!

 

[hulloutpost]

It was Brighton who Bobby Smith played for at Sincil Bank in the 1964/65 season after Spurs amazed everybody by selling him to a Fourth Division club for £5,000.

Gillingham, though, were certainly notorious for their defensive tactics in the 1963/64 season when they won the Fourth Division championship and they set a new record for the division of only 30 goals conceded. This wasn't beaten until Colin Murphy's side let in only 25 in 1980/81.

Prior to the start of the 1965/66 season City signed half of Gillingham's back four from their record-breaking season - Geoff Hudson and Alec Farrall - but they were rather less effective for us.

Wasn't it a Pulis (un)inspired Gillingham side that again took the least goals conceded record from The Murph's side?

 

[Bazzzer]

Gillingham, though, were certainly notorious for their defensive tactics in the 1963/64 season when they won the Fourth Division championship and they set a new record for the division of only 30 goals conceded.

Champions with just 59 goals scored.

Don't forget their goalie (John Simpson) was signed from the Imps for £750 and stayed there for 15 years, being their record appearance holder (571).

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Wasn't it a Pulis (un)inspired Gillingham side that again took the least goals conceded record from The Murph's side?

Yes - 20 goals in 1995/96.

 

[simes69]

Yes - 20 goals in 1995/96.

Won 3-0 at SB second game of season, beginning of the end of Sam Ellis as manager.

 

[imps1]

EFL have released full retained lists for all clubs.

Elicha Ahui, Morgan Worsfold-Gregg seem to be missing. Have they been released.