The player who left thread | Page 292 | Vital Football

The player who left thread

Best player on the pitch from what I saw.

He was despite not being given the ball for the first 20 mins, then he started to go and look for it.
Obviously, he'll be on the bench for the real games as Southgate doesn't do skill
Players like Philips and Rice seem to be his sort converted CB's playing in midfield.
 
In terms of value, you've got to be looking at the £100-110 million bracket now.

Dortmund apparently wanted £108 million for Sancho, but nobody would pay it. Sancho has no Premier League experience.

Jack is ready made, Premier League ready and at 25 just moving into his peak years.

In reality I can't see anyone paying it, which is great news for us.

Daniel Levy must be kicking himself. Could have had him for £22 million a couple of years ago. Clown.
 
He was despite not being given the ball for the first 20 mins, then he started to go and look for it.
Obviously, he'll be on the bench for the real games as Southgate doesn't do skill
Players like Philips and Rice seem to be his sort converted CB's playing in midfield.
Got to love how Southgate sets up with two negative midfielders who cannot pass the ball forward. Just absolute dross.

For all the hype about Philips he just appears to be a steady no frills central midfielder.
 
Judging by Southgate's interviews, he seems to think Grealish's off the ball, out of possession work isnt good enough.

For his first ITV interview, he said Calvert Lewin was "excellent", pressing etc. He then said Jack was "very good on the ball" and drawing fouls. In his second interview, he brought up Mount again and said when he came on he was both creative and pressing the opposition well.

His attitude towards Grealish is disgusting. Whatever personal vendetta he has against him is totally unprofessional and it will result in his eventual sacking. The game was over, won already, when Mount came on and he had no meaningful contribution to the match at all. If he starts ahead of Grealish in any meaningful competitive match and we lose, there should be uproar and rightly so.
 
His face just doesn't fit for one reason or another. Wouldn't be the first England manager to feel this way toward a talented player. Simple fact is that Southgate just doesn't know what to do with a player of Grealish's talent.

Grealish basically offers something no one else does and that scares Southgate. Southgate wants a team of robots.
 
His face just doesn't fit for one reason or another. Wouldn't be the first England manager to feel this way toward a talented player. Simple fact is that Southgate just doesn't know what to do with a player of Grealish's talent.

Grealish basically offers something no one else does and that scares Southgate. Southgate wants a team of robots.

I've no doubt just by Southgate's lack of praise for Jack that he won't play in the real games unless England don't score then he might get 15 mins at the end.
He didn't play him for the u21 team that much, so has obviously never known how to play him.
 
I've no doubt just by Southgate's lack of praise for Jack that he won't play in the real games unless England don't score then he might get 15 mins at the end.
He didn't play him for the u21 team that much, so has obviously never known how to play him.

reckon with Southgate if all the faves are available then Jack will struggle to make the squad let alone the starting team -
(unless Jack has such a season that the media are all over him etc then he'll be obliged to put him in the squad)
 
From that Independent report, cheers for that @Heartofthelion

This is exactly what I've been banging on about. Merson used to stay in the attacking positions, always looking to get forward. The coaches last season should have been showing Jack where they wanted him. I dare say Shakespeare has shown him AND we have a few players to match him now (nearly match him?!) quality wise, so he won't have to try to do 'everything'.

You want, surely, Jack to keep the oppo guessing, float around a little, and as Southgate says:

The area he got into for the goal he created is where he should aim to be more and more regularly,” Southgate said. “You want a player with his ability around that final third as much as you can. He’s good at receiving deep but I keep stressing to him that they’re the areas of the game where he can make a difference and he did that tonight.”

I'm also not convinced it has taken that long to get Jack in, the silly recent stuff aside. He wasn't quite ready before, now he is.
 
Got to love how Southgate sets up with two negative midfielders who cannot pass the ball forward. Just absolute dross.

For all the hype about Philips he just appears to be a steady no frills central midfielder.

Phillips only went backwards though I do think he’s a good player in a high intensity team. I just don’t get him and winks, or Henderson and Rice, or Dier and Rice, or Henderson and Dier or whatever steady defensive set up he likes to play. Get a central midfielder in there - even if it’s Mount - who can drive forward and link up with jack.

I don’t know Barkley’s status with England, but if he plays like he did against Liverpool, both him and jack should be pushing for an England starting place.
 
From that Independent report, cheers for that @Heartofthelion

This is exactly what I've been banging on about. Merson used to stay in the attacking positions, always looking to get forward. The coaches last season should have been showing Jack where they wanted him. I dare say Shakespeare has shown him AND we have a few players to match him now (nearly match him?!) quality wise, so he won't have to try to do 'everything'.

You want, surely, Jack to keep the oppo guessing, float around a little, and as Southgate says:

The area he got into for the goal he created is where he should aim to be more and more regularly,” Southgate said. “You want a player with his ability around that final third as much as you can. He’s good at receiving deep but I keep stressing to him that they’re the areas of the game where he can make a difference and he did that tonight.”

I'm also not convinced it has taken that long to get Jack in, the silly recent stuff aside. He wasn't quite ready before, now he is.
Isn't that the difference between a good forward player and a world class player though, the ability to involve yourself in the game if you're not getting the service in the final third?

You get these Aguero, Berbatov and Salah type excellent attackers who stay forward and wait for supply, but then you get these world class talents like Cristiano Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Wayne Rooney, Lionel Messi, who drop deep when the service isn't coming to them and influence the game any which way they can.

Grealish created the first goal and he won the free kick for the second. In the first minutes of the second half, he won possession back for England at least five times (I was counting, sad), including once where he showed Gomez how to do his job, tackling a Welsh player in the England box. Then he won that free kick for the second goal.

Southgate can tell Grealish to float around the final third as much as he wants, but when you have two defensive midfielders, a right back and a 19 year old left back as the only creative forces behind him, what's the point? Grealish won the game for England last night and any manager worth his salt would have recognised and praised that.
 
Isn't that the difference between a good forward player and a world class player though, the ability to involve yourself in the game if you're not getting the service in the final third?

.

Yes, but with better around you, you don't have to cover every blade of grass, you have faith in your team members that they will do their job, in Jack's case, that frees him up to do what he is best at, causing havoc amongst the oppo defences. He is there to get the ball and provide the service after-all, as well as shooting and scoring himself. He's doing that very nicely now btw, not saying he isn't.

If you try to cover the entire pitch, especially when fouled as much as Jack, the risk of injury is far greater, or just exhaustion.
 
From that Independent report, cheers for that @Heartofthelion

This is exactly what I've been banging on about. Merson used to stay in the attacking positions, always looking to get forward. The coaches last season should have been showing Jack where they wanted him. I dare say Shakespeare has shown him AND we have a few players to match him now (nearly match him?!) quality wise, so he won't have to try to do 'everything'.

You want, surely, Jack to keep the oppo guessing, float around a little, and as Southgate says:

The area he got into for the goal he created is where he should aim to be more and more regularly,” Southgate said. “You want a player with his ability around that final third as much as you can. He’s good at receiving deep but I keep stressing to him that they’re the areas of the game where he can make a difference and he did that tonight.”

I'm also not convinced it has taken that long to get Jack in, the silly recent stuff aside. He wasn't quite ready before, now he is.

I agree with you but disagree with what Southgate is saying, It was clear as daylight Grealish was told to play on the left, he stuck it out for 15minutes didn't once receive the ball once, he then went deep to receive a loose ball to build an attack, first goal he went to the other side to receive the ball as nothing was happening down the left side.

It was a complete back handed compliment to Jack, making any excuse to say he isn't quite doing what I want him to do, so I won't pick him next match.

Running down both wings floating around he needs to play behind the striker and give him that freedom to do what he wants.

Last night he had no choice but to run around the whole pitch because the team was inadequate, No doubt he'll stay in those dangerous positions when he knows the service will come, but all the play was down the right until Mings was bought in, with his left foot started getting Saka involved down the left.
 
From that Independent report, cheers for that @Heartofthelion

This is exactly what I've been banging on about. Merson used to stay in the attacking positions, always looking to get forward. The coaches last season should have been showing Jack where they wanted him. I dare say Shakespeare has shown him AND we have a few players to match him now (nearly match him?!) quality wise, so he won't have to try to do 'everything'.

You want, surely, Jack to keep the oppo guessing, float around a little, and as Southgate says:

The area he got into for the goal he created is where he should aim to be more and more regularly,” Southgate said. “You want a player with his ability around that final third as much as you can. He’s good at receiving deep but I keep stressing to him that they’re the areas of the game where he can make a difference and he did that tonight.”

I'm also not convinced it has taken that long to get Jack in, the silly recent stuff aside. He wasn't quite ready before, now he is.

I don’t think you are necessarily wrong, but when you look at some of the other players who have made their debuts in the last 2 years that argument doesn’t stack up from Southgates perspective. Hudson-Odoi, Greenwood, Mount, Tomori, Phillips, Barnes, Saka, Foden, Maitland-Niles.. were any of them more ‘ready’ when they were first selected than Grealish has been for at least the last 18 months?
 
Yeah, I'm meaning specifically for Villa to be fair, a ridiculous friendly at a time of COVID and players having to play games is daft and of little concern (still like to win though! LOL) ... Agree that team was inadequate.

But what Southgate says, despite the fact most of you seem against the guy, relates to Jack's role. As said, Merse, the most comparable player to Jack that we have had in recent times (maybe ever) wasn't one to be tracking back all the time.
 
Yes, but with better around you, you don't have to cover every blade of grass, you have faith in your team members that they will do their job, in Jack's case, that frees him up to do what he is best at, causing havoc amongst the oppo defences. He is there to get the ball and provide the service after-all, as well as shooting and scoring himself. He's doing that very nicely now btw, not saying he isn't.

If you try to cover the entire pitch, especially when fouled as much as Jack, the risk of injury is far greater, or just exhaustion.
I agree in the case of Villa this season. I think he will be able to stay forward with Barkley and McGinn behind him creating chances and good footballers in Douglas, Mings, Cash and Konsa able to build attacks at the back too.

But when he plays in substandard teams like the Villa side last season and that England team last night, it takes a special kind of footballer to drop deep and make things happen when you're not getting the service. Glad he's got it in his locker.