The Plastic Crisis/Environment Thread | Vital Football

The Plastic Crisis/Environment Thread

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#1
Very worrying what we've done to this planet and what we'll leave to the next generation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-42990391/plastic-pollution-reaching-record-levels-in-once-pristine-arctic
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#2
One possible solution to part of the problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-42968529/plastic-bottle-scheme-that-could-help-clean-the-oceans
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
#5
The Fear - 8/2/2018 22:55

One possible solution to part of the problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-42968529/plastic-bottle-scheme-that-could-help-clean-the-oceans
Not seeing a difference between than and Alcan was it about 20 years ago, penny for a coke can type thing.

Soon died a death - it's cultural.
 

Villan Of The North

Vital Football Legend
#6
The Fear - 8/2/2018 23:55

One possible solution to part of the problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-42968529/plastic-bottle-scheme-that-could-help-clean-the-oceans
I believe it actually started in Sweden, they certainly have the same system. When I first moved here this deposite system only applied to reusable types of bottles, a thicker plastc that was sturdy enough to be washed, sterilised and reused but 3-4 years ago it was extended to single use bottles. Now almost all plastic bottles here are the single use ones. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, it does mean that a lot of energy goes into recycling rather than direct reuse, which I would imagine is a more energy effeicient process, it certainly seems to be cheaper for the producers though, or I doubt that so many would have hopped on board rather than continuing with the reusable bottles.

Things are actually taken a step further here, as the repporter pointed out, there is a limit to how many times the plastic can be recycled, when it gets to this stage it is sorted with all other burnable material and sold to the Swedish who use it to fire clean burning power stations. Personally I think that this a a good thing as it eliminates landfill but regardless of how clean these power stations are, there will always be some form of byproduct that enters the environment in some form at some stage and given the fuel being burned, this is bound to be toxic at some level.

I quite like other ways that the plastic is recycled, it can be used to make clothing, like fleece jackets, it can be used to make building materials such as insulation and many other things. For me, one of the biggest issues is not plastic bottles but plastic carrier bags, this is where we really need to focus our efforts.


 

Villan Of The North

Vital Football Legend
#7
mike_field - 9/2/2018 12:03

The Fear - 8/2/2018 22:55

One possible solution to part of the problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-42968529/plastic-bottle-scheme-that-could-help-clean-the-oceans
Not seeing a difference between than and Alcan was it about 20 years ago, penny for a coke can type thing.

Soon died a death - it's cultural.
You'd be surprised Mike, there are people (few in number, I'll grant you) that earn a living from collecting and returning pop bottles overe here. Small bottles pay about 10p and large ones pay about 25p. From time to time you will see someone with a bin liner, collecting all the bottles they can, digging through bins etc as there are still many people here that would rather use the bin outside a shop than take bother to keep hold of it until their next visit and get the value of the deposite discounted from their shopping bill (as is the norm in our house). I've waited in queues several times, to return my bottles, behind rather scruffily dressed people (well would you wear nice clothes to pick up "trash" and root through bins?) comming away with over £40 on their deposite reciept (when I say waited, I mean wandered off to do something else and then come back 10 minutes later when they are finally finished) If they invest 6-8 hours a day and learn all the best places to look, which they would overe time, I expect they can earn several hundred pounts a week this way.


 

Pride of Lions

Vital Football Legend
#8
I think the deposit on bottles would work. They certainly did with glass bottles when I was a kid. Back in the day when I was a kid living in Castle Bromwich, when Chelmsley Wood was just being built, me and my mates would ride around the building sites in the summer collecting pop bottles.
We used to make a relative fortune in the summer holidays.....

Surely it could work again with plastic bottles.

However, that's just the tip of the iceberg, there are so many plastic products that get just thrown wherever and not properly disposed of.

 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
#9
Villan Of The North - 9/2/2018 12:00

You'd be surprised Mike, there are people (few in number, I'll grant you) that earn a living from collecting and returning pop bottles overe here. Small bottles pay about 10p and large ones pay about 25p. From time to time you will see someone with a bin liner, collecting all the bottles they can, digging through bins etc as there are still many people here that would rather use the bin outside a shop than take bother to keep hold of it until their next visit and get the value of the deposite discounted from their shopping bill (as is the norm in our house). I've waited in queues several times, to return my bottles, behind rather scruffily dressed people (well would you wear nice clothes to pick up "trash" and root through bins?) comming away with over £40 on their deposite reciept (when I say waited, I mean wandered off to do something else and then come back 10 minutes later when they are finally finished) If they invest 6-8 hours a day and learn all the best places to look, which they would overe time, I expect they can earn several hundred pounts a week this way.
Not surprised at all mate, with the coke et al cans people used to do the same when I was a wee nipper as a quick way to make a bit of extra wonga.

Had a van drive round to begin with at certain times for them to be swapped and that soon turned into a van parked on a certain day at local Asda or whatever. But it seemed to disappear within a few months from there.

Just not sure it'll catch on over here given it's been tried before and failed.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#10
It's plastic full stop that needs looking at, didn't say it was just bottles to be fair.

And I have seen things before where it is being tested/or used to build roads. Something needs doing. Tougher laws as well.

No one will though, people will talk a tough game but will they really go for it? It's a vote loser. Look at the storm from the dickheads when free plastic bags were banned. Fair enough the education as to why it was being done wasn't very good but listening to some people in the supermarkets was hilarious, as was those who would rather walk out holding everything than spend 5p
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
#11
That's the problem with the 5p charge for plastic baggies in supermarkets, the money stays with the supermarket rather than going to a fund to do something about the problem in the first place.

It gave people the excuse to moan.
 
#12
The Fear - 9/2/2018 20:48

as was those who would rather walk out holding everything than spend 5p
Perhaps Stratford is just going downhill, but there are definitely more abandoned shopping trolleys about since the carrier bag charge came in. People just make me so angry at times. Most of the time, in fact.
 

Melon Donkey

Vital Football Legend
#13
Reading the thread title i thought it was football related and it was about the outbreak of football fans that claim to support certain clubs favoured by Sky but have never been within 100 miles of said club.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
#14
I've just had a bagel and a coffee from Coffee Bean.

The coffee comes with a plastic lid. The bagel is wrapped in plastic. It comes with plastic cutlery and the cream cheese comes in plastic containers. All of it goes in the bin when I'm finished.

There has to be a better solution but I don't know what it is. No takeaway?
 

Villan Of The North

Vital Football Legend
#15
BodyButter - 10/2/2018 01:52

I've just had a bagel and a coffee from Coffee Bean.

The coffee comes with a plastic lid. The bagel is wrapped in plastic. It comes with plastic cutlery and the cream cheese comes in plastic containers. All of it goes in the bin when I'm finished.

There has to be a better solution but I don't know what it is. No takeaway?
There are alternatives but they either cost more or are less convenient. For example, Amway make all of their household product bottles out of resin rather than plastic, by the look and feel of them you'd never know but they are made entirely from plant based materials that burn down to a fine ash. Amway products cost more than their equivalent in Tesco though, are people willing to pay the extra or are world governments prepaired to regulate such that it's not an extra cost, perhaps by taxing cheap plastics? Right now I'd say that the answer to both is no.

 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
#16
I think plastic is a great material but we have become over reliant on it. Disposable items should only be made of biodegradable materials. If it costs more, so be it.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#17
BodyButter - 10/2/2018 00:52

I've just had a bagel and a coffee from Coffee Bean.

The coffee comes with a plastic lid. The bagel is wrapped in plastic. It comes with plastic cutlery and the cream cheese comes in plastic containers. All of it goes in the bin when I'm finished.

There has to be a better solution but I don't know what it is. No takeaway?
That about sums up the issue doesn't it? And unless forced, companies won't use the more expensive alternatives.

Wrapping inside wrapping covered by a box.
 
#18
mike_field - 9/2/2018 21:04

That's the problem with the 5p charge for plastic baggies in supermarkets, the money stays with the supermarket rather than going to a fund to do something about the problem in the first place.

It gave people the excuse to moan.
4p of every 5p went to charities last year. It's part of the scheme that retailers are "expected" to donate the money to good causes. The other 1p is largely accounted for by VAT.

Maybe this needs communicating to the public more?

In any respects, hasn't it been a success? There has been about an 80% reduction in use.

I'm on a mission to stop plastic straws in pubs at the moment. I just can't help myself.
 
#20
Exactly. Customers need to insist, or the pubs won't change.

I thought I read somewhere that Iceland want to become plastic free, or as near as they can, and they are working with suppliers to achieve this. Seeing as these suppliers work with all the supermarkets normally, then that could have a knock on effect.