THE only thing we need to know right now

Was it the correct decision to name the West Bridgford stand, The John Robertson Stand?

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .
Ingy said:
Sandy and Pigsy with Monkey whistling for his cloud to pick him up! I remember watching it as a kid and pretty sure the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy series was also on around the same time. Crackling times chaps!
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Basha73 said:
And yet on the back of that you raised the issue of loyalty by suggesting that people who hadn’t seen those years were possibly more loyal than those who had.
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No, I said they were deserving of respect

You took it to be about superior loyalty, but maybe that's a Basha73 problem?

I was pointing out that we have higher attendances now, and have consistently, despite winning nothing for 30 years and a dearth of any success or much enjoyment.

I was pointing out that committing for years is a hard thing to do- around 10,000 people who saw the glory years didn't do it- and that includes the older members of my own family

So people who have done that in their own unfavourable conditions deserve respect and a bit of looking after.

It's not like the economy of today has been fantastic for the last 15 years either.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No, I said they were deserving of respect

You took it to be about superior loyalty, but maybe that's a Basha73 problem?

I was pointing out that we have higher attendances now, and have consistently, despite winning nothing for 30 years and a dearth of any success or much enjoyment.

I was pointing out that committing for years is a hard thing to do- around 10,000 people who saw the glory years didn't do it- and that includes the older members of my own family

So people who have done that in their own unfavourable conditions deserve respect and a bit of looking after.

It's not like the economy of today has been fantastic for the last 15 years either.
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No, that’s very obviously and definitely a Pope problem as nobody else has raised the issue of loyalty but you. It’s almost like you want a generational divide…
 
Basha73 said:
No, that’s very obviously and definitely a Pope problem as nobody else has raised the issue of loyalty but you. It’s almost like you want a generational divide…
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Clearly one exists in many walks of life, never of course recognised by those who benefit from it

Such as in this case, where the 30% who actually saw Robertson play have a tear in their eye
 
The topic of conversation is now overdone and getting a bit boring now.

It's absolutely correct that we have a stand named after John Robertson.
Where I personally have more of an open mind, and dont disagree, is naming a stand after Peter Taylor..

No-one other than Pearce should be in the conversation for this sort of accolade/tribute, either before Clough, or after the miracle men

What will be interesting is when/if the WFCG gets redeveloped, what happens to the stand names then? Or more importantly, will EM sell ground naming rights for a hefty sponsorship deal
 
mao tse tung said:
Really!

I vaguely remember covering something similar to that but it wasnt in History; pretty sure it was Political Science - Thematic and Conflict Studies.
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I couldn't even imagine sitting A Levels these days. They are far more difficult than they were 30 odd years ago.

My daughter needs 3 As to get into Leeds and the first paper was a pig. I know schools have submitted complaints about the wording in it.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Apologies for taking this sentence by sentence to an extent

I disagree that this is why they have done it

I think they are catering to your generation of fans again.

Robertson has died and the club know it will go down well with a significant section. They also have the experience with Taylor and his family and the campaign to name a stand after him.

I don't disagree about the scale of how extraordinary it was, but I think as much as anything this is seen as an open goal for the club in fan relations

Maybe that's a good thing, but the popular thing isn't always the right thing.


And that era has been comprehensively and completely honoured. It's in everything. 3 stands out of four now.

But our club is over 160 years old. All our focus is on 4 years of it. The same manager was actually more successful than we have ever been at any other time 10 years later, but we don't even celebrate that.

Stop and reflect a minute. An FA Cup in 1959 was about the height of what it was possible to win.

We already have a fan on here completely dismissing 157 years of our history because only those four years matter.

Are you sure you don't give a shit about McKinley, Walker and co more because you werent there?


Yes, they are

But that is where you have some balance.

We don't define the entire 20th century by WWII; we acknowledge the key role it played in the century but we don't study that 6 years to the exclusion of the other 94- or maybe some people do?

Yet at Forest, this is more or less exactly what we do. We don't have any balance, even for the wider and longer term achievements or the manager from that same era.

My example, Stuart Pearce, was a player of that same Clough era - just the bit we never talk about. He won 4 trophies and was robbed of a 5th- very close to what Robertson won- and because of Liverpool he only had the chance to play for us in Europe in his penultimate season.

People forget that there are some absolutely brilliant players in that later era who were robbed of the chance to repeat some of those European feats.

When we see the pre game video, how much of it is from the 77-80 era, how much of it is in black and white, and how much of it is from 87-91? This video is typical of what I am talking about


90% of it is from that same era

A couple of goals in black and white, at least one from Storey-Moore. 2 goals by Pearce. A spattering of other 80s goals. 2 I think by Collymore, one by Earnshaw.

Fans from the 70s, fans from the 70s, fans from the 2020s, fans from the 70s.

It's a perfectly fine video - but it just shows the scale of the bias I am talking about. We won 2 cups in the late 80s- nothing

Because they don't. It's one part of their history and treated as such


That's a really disingenuous statement

Firstly, NO ONE has said we should avoid celebrating 77-80

Liverpool celebrate a very wide variety of eras, including ones their current younger fans will remember

And no one has said anything about "younger fans feeling excluded". That just comes across as an older guy parroting Daily Mail headlines having a go at younger people they know nothing about for "participation awards" and "hurt feelings".


Two successful eras, the latter of which most fans will remember and have been there for.


I think this is the fundamental difference between myself and many of the people here

You say that you don't believe that those 4 years alone matter.

Yet here you are saying exactly that.

161 years of history but just four of them, which you happened to be there for, matter

I agree they matter, a great deal. But I also think that this club has done a lot of worthy things in it's history before, since and probably will again

You say it's the defining moment.

Do you, in your life, have just one defining moment? Just one week or month or year that really matters or gives it meaning? I hope not!



I am not weighing up "historical importance"

I am saying that a club belongs to it's fans- all of them.

I will never see Forest in a more weighty or important moment than you have. That's a fact.

But the club is mine as much as it is yours, and it is an 18 year olds as much as mine. It is there to entertain us all, to connect us to our local area, and to other local people.

That's why all our personal histories have importance. Not more importance or the same importance. But more than "3% of the pre match video" importance

I have spent my whole Forest supporting life paying homage to the late 70s, a bit of homage to the 90s and other eras would be nice
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I think you’re still slightly conflating two different things: emotional connection and historical significance.

Of course supporters who lived through different eras will feel more emotionally connected to Pearce, Stan, Reid, Cooper etc depending on their age. That’s completely natural. But stand names aren’t really about “which era individual fans personally connected with most”. They’re usually reserved for the figures most associated with the defining achievements of the club itself.

The fact they may be under-recognised doesn't mean Clough, Taylor and Robertson are over-recognised.

The reason isn’t that the club ignores 1959 or other successful periods. It’s that 1959 won an FA Cup, the 70s/90s sides won League Cups, whereas 1977–80 won the League title, back-to-back European Cups, a European Super Cup and League Cups.

And I don’t really accept the idea that the club only celebrates 77–80. Pearce is revered. Walker, Storey-Moore, Webb, O’Neill, Stan — they all have a visible place in the club’s culture and history.

The difference is that none of those eras fundamentally changed Forest’s status in world football in the way Clough/Taylor/Robertson did. That isn’t older fans gatekeeping history — it’s just acknowledging scale.

You mention WWII as an analogy, but ironically that kind of proves the point. We absolutely do give disproportionate historical focus to events that disproportionately shaped identity, status and history. That doesn’t mean the rest is ignored.

And honestly, I think you’re understating how unique the European Cup era actually was. Plenty of clubs win domestic cups. Plenty have good teams. Forest went from the Second Division to champions of Europe twice in four years. That isn’t just “another successful period” in the timeline of the club — it’s one of the most extraordinary achievements in football history.

I also think your “you happened to be there for it” point slightly misses the mark with me personally, because I wasn’t really there for most of it either. I was too young. I vaguely remember diving around the sofa pretending to be Peter Shilton, but I don’t actually remember the games themselves.

My real football memories are probably more the Pearce/Clough/Walker era of the late 80s and early 90s. That’s the Forest team I truly grew up watching. So my appreciation of the European Cup side isn’t rooted in personal nostalgia — it’s rooted in understanding the scale of what they achieved.

Nobody is saying the club should stop celebrating other eras. But I don’t think recognising the single greatest period in the club’s history with permanent honours is remotely unreasonable.
 
Red Krayola said:
I think you’re still slightly conflating two different things: emotional connection and historical significance.

Of course supporters who lived through different eras will feel more emotionally connected to Pearce, Stan, Reid, Cooper etc depending on their age. That’s completely natural. But stand names aren’t really about “which era individual fans personally connected with most”. They’re usually reserved for the figures most associated with the defining achievements of the club itself.

The fact they may be under-recognised doesn't mean Clough, Taylor and Robertson are over-recognised.

The reason isn’t that the club ignores 1959 or other successful periods. It’s that 1959 won an FA Cup, the 70s/90s sides won League Cups, whereas 1977–80 won the League title, back-to-back European Cups, a European Super Cup and League Cups.

And I don’t really accept the idea that the club only celebrates 77–80. Pearce is revered. Walker, Storey-Moore, Webb, O’Neill, Stan — they all have a visible place in the club’s culture and history.

The difference is that none of those eras fundamentally changed Forest’s status in world football in the way Clough/Taylor/Robertson did. That isn’t older fans gatekeeping history — it’s just acknowledging scale.

You mention WWII as an analogy, but ironically that kind of proves the point. We absolutely do give disproportionate historical focus to events that disproportionately shaped identity, status and history. That doesn’t mean the rest is ignored.

And honestly, I think you’re understating how unique the European Cup era actually was. Plenty of clubs win domestic cups. Plenty have good teams. Forest went from the Second Division to champions of Europe twice in four years. That isn’t just “another successful period” in the timeline of the club — it’s one of the most extraordinary achievements in football history.

I also think your “you happened to be there for it” point slightly misses the mark with me personally, because I wasn’t really there for most of it either. I was too young. I vaguely remember diving around the sofa pretending to be Peter Shilton, but I don’t actually remember the games themselves.

My real football memories are probably more the Pearce/Clough/Walker era of the late 80s and early 90s. That’s the Forest team I truly grew up watching. So my appreciation of the European Cup side isn’t rooted in personal nostalgia — it’s rooted in understanding the scale of what they achieved.

Nobody is saying the club should stop celebrating other eras. But I don’t think recognising the single greatest period in the club’s history with permanent honours is remotely unreasonable.
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......diving around the sofa pretending to be Peter Shilton,

Was this at 5 in the morning with a young lady called Tina, by any chance?
 
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