The Ollie Watkins Thread | Page 17 | Vital Football

The Ollie Watkins Thread

danvilla2 said:
There’s a theme on Vital Villa with player threads. Those player threads which have a split opinion, such as Wesley, Conor Hourihane even Neil Taylor, there’s a reason why they are debated. Sometimes, they have a decent game and show some promise, other times they revert to what the other half think. As a more critical poster, I end up in the “need replacing” 50% quite often but that’s because I believe you need to continually improve.

Wesley is well and truly in that camp, and the pro-Wesley posters (nothing wrong with that) will point to his promise he showed before he got injured, which was fair enough. Personally, I see a very poor player technically who needs a lot of work but each to their own.

With Ollie, the posts are overwhelmingly positive positive posts and it doesn’t even feel like that’s because it’s a honey moon period. Of course, he’ll have dry spells and games where he can’t get into it, but he’s a special talent that’s for sure.
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Not really in question that those 3 are pretty crap players some still think Wesley is going to come good but my guess is some people are a little slower on the uptake :throw:
 
Ollie is pretty much everything that Wesley isn't. Hold up play from Ollie is immense, Wesley goes to ground with little contact & is still there punching the turf whilst the opposition charge into our half. Ollie busts a gut to get into the box, Wes jogs towards it, Ollie has an instinct to et into the right place, can't be coached & his finishing is ruthless. Would love Wes to come good, though don't see it, certainly at best he is back up to the main man.
 
A CF's currency is goals. We were a poor team last season and Ollie (who has not been in a few games this season) may not have inspired the confidence he currently does.

Let's wait and see the outcome this season, I'm not willing to chuck a £22m signing in the bin just yet and I'm not completely convinced that Ollie's the bees knees. It's good to have options, it's good to have variations.

Overall, Ollie, Wesley and Keinan are very different players with different strengths and weaknesses. I'm happy to watch it play out - although I fully agree with most that Ollie is in the driving seat. Let's just hope we keep on improving on all of the above in incremental steps.
 
I think I want to see Ollie playing wide left (inside forward, think Mane, Rashford or Sterling) for us eventually. He's a good footballer, a hard worker, pacey, intelligent, good at pressing and off the ball play. Goalscoring prolific wide forwards are very valuable, highly sought after and hard to come across in the modern game, I think we've got a good one here.

On that basis, there is room for Wesley to come in and fight for a place in the team. I am in the second chance camp for Wesley, I saw enough in him to suggest he's got some talent and in this better side I think he will be far more dangerous than he looked for most of last season.

Wesley
Watkins Barkley Grealish
Douglas McGinn
Targett Mings Konsa Cash
Martinez

Got a feeling that could be our lineup before the end of the season.
 
Pangloss said:
Watkins has banged in 8 in 10 as a central striker, why on earth would we move him onto the left, especially given Grealish is playing so well there as well.
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To accommodate the Brazilian wonder boy that is suddenly going to appear!
I can actually see a player in Watkins, something I never remotely saw in Wesley not even with one eye shut and squinting through the other does he look like a player. Plus he's had a career-threatening injury and doesn't look like he'll be back this season. He'll need some u23 games first
 
Pangloss said:
Watkins has banged in 8 in 10 as a central striker, why on earth would we move him onto the left, especially given Grealish is playing so well there as well.
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Because he's only scored in two premier league games (minus Southampton penalty in which the rest of the match he was AWOL) and has been totally isolated in the others. He's made a few good attempts for himself cutting in from the left on his right foot. Grealish looks good anywhere.

Watkins is too intelligent and talented a player to be wasted as a striker. Like Aubemayang, Rashford, Sterling etc., his best position is left wing/left forward.
 
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ldgavfc said:
Because he's only scored in two premier league games (minus Southampton penalty in which the rest of the match he was AWOL) and has been totally isolated in the others. He's made a few good attempts for himself cutting in from the left on his right foot. Grealish looks good anywhere.

Watkins is too intelligent and talented a player to be wasted as a striker. Like Aubemayang, Rashford, Sterling etc., his best position is left wing/left forward.
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Not following your logic there ldgav. Yes, you're statistically correct that he's scored his open-play goals in two games, but the team has also won 5 out of the 7 when he has played centre-forward. Being "isolated" at times as a centre-forward in a 4-2-3-1 is inevitable, as your role is often to occupy defenders to free up space in other areas.
He's too intelligent to be "wasted" as a centre-forward? I actually think it's the most tactically-challenging position on the pitch in this type of system, requiring loads of decision-making (when to press, where to press, who to press, when to drop deep and cut out passing angles, when to run in-behind, when to pull into wide areas, when to show deep for the ball, timing runs into the box).
I hardly think that you could classify Sergio Aguero, Thierry Henry or Harry Kane as unintelligent footballers....
 
ldgavfc said:
Because he's only scored in two premier league games (minus Southampton penalty in which the rest of the match he was AWOL) and has been totally isolated in the others. He's made a few good attempts for himself cutting in from the left on his right foot. Grealish looks good anywhere.

Watkins is too intelligent and talented a player to be wasted as a striker. Like Aubemayang, Rashford, Sterling etc., his best position is left wing/left forward.
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He's scored in three premier league games (penalties do count you know) and has 6 goals. Great return. He's also contributing to our general play very well, whether that's dropping deep, pulling out wide, or holding the ball up.

He has shown great instincts in front of goal and will only get better with more experience. It would be utter madness to move him.

Aubemayang is also much better through the middle and is having a poor season out left this season. Bad example.
 
ldgavfc said:
Because he's only scored in two premier league games (minus Southampton penalty in which the rest of the match he was AWOL) and has been totally isolated in the others. He's made a few good attempts for himself cutting in from the left on his right foot. Grealish looks good anywhere.

Watkins is too intelligent and talented a player to be wasted as a striker. Like Aubemayang, Rashford, Sterling etc., his best position is left wing/left forward.
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Because he's been isolated?? That's not down to him, if the other players don't provide service.

The Arse game was a classic, just before he scored, I said he hadn't been provided with even a half chance, despite making a big contribution in terms of closing down & excellent hold up play. I said I hoped he'd get a decent chance.

Eventually, we provided him with 2 chances, and he took them both, I'd say that's pretty impressive.

Plus, he's scored 6 in 7 Prem games, don't consider that as too shabby either.

Not given up on Wesley, but, up until his unfortunate injury, we saw nothing to compare to what Ollie has done.
 
I think we're offered all these stats we attempt to apply them to every game and apply them when they're not necessary. Yes Ollie has looked isolated in some games but screaming out player X has only had 10 touch sounds negative but it might not be.

Jamie Vardy hardly touch's the ball and he's one of the most important players on the pitch for Leicester. Ollie's game isn't the same but I am not going to panic too much if he isn't fully involved. He has the instinct and desire to score.

We won't see Ollie playing in wide positions regularly because Dean is on record as telling him he saw him as a #9 when he was wide left at Brentford.
 
Pangloss said:
He's scored in three premier league games (penalties do count you know) and has 6 goals. Great return. He's also contributing to our general play very well, whether that's dropping deep, pulling out wide, or holding the ball up.

He has shown great instincts in front of goal and will only get better with more experience. It would be utter madness to move him.

Aubemayang is also much better through the middle and is having a poor season out left this season. Bad example.
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Glad you and others seem to think he's doing well. Arsenal and Liverpool aside, I think he's been fairly invisible. Looks like a very talented player in an unnatural position to me. I reckon he'll be playing left wing or left forward before too long.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
I think we're offered all these stats we attempt to apply them to every game and apply them when they're not necessary. Yes Ollie has looked isolated in some games but screaming out player X has only had 10 touch sounds negative but it might not be.

Jamie Vardy hardly touch's the ball and he's one of the most important players on the pitch for Leicester. Ollie's game isn't the same but I am not going to panic too much if he isn't fully involved. He has the instinct and desire to score.

We won't see Ollie playing in wide positions regularly because Dean is on record as telling him he saw him as a #9 when he was wide left at Brentford.
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Stats are getting more ridiculous every season, take Jack people used to say he doesn't get enough goals or assists but where is the stat that tells you he takes 3 players out of the game every time he gets the ball thus some other fecker gets the assist or goal. There are not many goals he's not involved in even if its winning the corner or freekick from which we score.

Back to Ollie, there are no stats that can see a run or how he takes up a position etc.
The only stat that matters is we win, If we win 5 out of 7 for the rest of the season and he doesn't score another goal I'll take that now
 
Ollie is a modern centre-forward, in the same way that Kane is. Such players play across the front line but they shouldn't be stuck out too wide. They're dangerous and need to be in the danger area.

Wesley before he came to us often played wide, and that's probably his best position.

The only role I can see for Davis is if he became a sort of Firminio, but I don't think he's nearly good enough.
 
ldgavfc said:
Glad you and others seem to think he's doing well. Arsenal and Liverpool aside, I think he's been fairly invisible. Looks like a very talented player in an unnatural position to me. I reckon he'll be playing left wing or left forward before too long.
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8 goals in 10 games, that's doing very well.
 
ldgavfc said:
Glad you and others seem to think he's doing well. Arsenal and Liverpool aside, I think he's been fairly invisible. Looks like a very talented player in an unnatural position to me. I reckon he'll be playing left wing or left forward before too long.
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Can't agree with that , it seems history is being rewritten to suit an argument. He was very good v Fulham as well , and missed 2 chances v Leeds. Can't have it that he has only played well in 2 games , when we have won 5 with good performances.
 
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