Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
That might be true. However they are 2 separate individuals. We should give Sanson a chance to prove us wrong. You'd at least agree that 10 mins is not enough to do much unless you are a world class player.
The Official Dean Smith Thread
- Thread starter Melon Donkey
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That might be true. However they are 2 separate individuals. We should give Sanson a chance to prove us wrong. You'd at least agree that 10 mins is not enough to do much unless you are a world class player.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
But on the flipside, how many of us genuinely think our bench could improve things? We magnificently lack depth.
Nakamba has only just really impressed, El Ghazi/Trez have a role IF 100% on it but few want to see them for more than 30 minutes at best. Davis can do a job or sorts I think, but he's not a goto for obvious reasons and I can only assume with the recent lack of training, we haven't freshly trained on the system he would work in.
Sanson, a total unknown from France who won't be up to speed or fitness yet and then youngsters we believe in but who have shown very little - albeit Ramsey looks promising.
We're not exactly blessed with talent to suit a different system plan B.
JuanPabloAngel
Alert Team
Has he gone yet? 
Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
I agree that our bench is pretty much filled with crap. Hence if he does not want to play anyone from the bench until someone from the first team gets injured, I understand. But when a clearly underperforming Barkley keeps playing game after game, then I don't think I can agree that such a manager is right for us. Ramsey is not shite, so he should replace Ross if not Sanson is not ready yet.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
I take the point, but just as Traore looks good for 10 minutes and awful for 80 - Sanson has looked good for 10 minutes...but not exactly bossed it. It's an introduction so he learns the pace, the physicality, potentially learns the language so he can understand what's going on - learns what players will do things differently in a game setting compared to training sessions and so on.
Nakky and Ramsey have done more than Sanson in terms of getting a start, and again, although I would start him and Nak for this and push McGinn further forward again - his ten minutes over the next month will grow I'd imagine.
Not least because now the fixture list has calmed, DS and the coaches have proper time to work with him on what they want from him etc. He hasn't really had chance to settle in during training with games every 3 days as the focus was recovery and nothing else.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Has he gone yet?
We'll travel later in the week mate.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
He's tried to play Barkley into form owing to a lack of training time and it hasn't worked better and more successful managers than Smithy have made that mistake regularly. Ramsey might not be shit, but are we ready to pin our hopes on him contributing to that level?
He looks a prospect to me, but for those not enamoured I see their point. Not looking overawed is not the same as looking like you can make a contribution.
Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
Regardless of what you say, giving any other player a chance instead of persevering with a player like Barkley is the right thing to do.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Playing true Devil's Advocate.
Given Jack returns after every break needing 3/4 games to get back to his best, should he be benched until he's at his best?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
Two totally different players in terms of their contribution and value to the club !
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Nope, to begin with Barkley looked every match for Jack's importance to the side and he helped make Jack look even sharper given he seemed to be on the same wavelength. It's totally comparable and your answer implies you've made your mind up on DS based on 5% and will ignore the 95% that proves the opposite.
Use your thoughts to a logical conclusion.
This summer we'd have sold Targett, Konsa, Hause, Mings, McGinn, El Ghazi etc purely because all of them showed a lack of form last season.
And your answer is a strong and successful manager makes changes and DS is weak for gambling that an England international, European winner, domestic Cup winner, hugely experienced player coming back from injury (during a period where we couldn't train) would need games to re-find fitness and form.
And you'd have replaced him weeks ago with Ramsey who has proven nothing, or Sanson who probably doesn't even yet own a house or have his family with him.
Funny how we only remember the managerial gambles that don't pay off, yet give no credit for taking that risk based on those who 200% do pay off.
Use your thoughts to a logical conclusion.
This summer we'd have sold Targett, Konsa, Hause, Mings, McGinn, El Ghazi etc purely because all of them showed a lack of form last season.
And your answer is a strong and successful manager makes changes and DS is weak for gambling that an England international, European winner, domestic Cup winner, hugely experienced player coming back from injury (during a period where we couldn't train) would need games to re-find fitness and form.
And you'd have replaced him weeks ago with Ramsey who has proven nothing, or Sanson who probably doesn't even yet own a house or have his family with him.
Funny how we only remember the managerial gambles that don't pay off, yet give no credit for taking that risk based on those who 200% do pay off.
Melon Donkey
I am a little bit perplexed
The mythical Smith plan b is only as good as the players that can implement it . Our bench is not remotely good enough at the moment to implement said mythical plan b at this level.
Having been on here long enough to have seen a few managers come and go. There is a bit of manager bingo that goes on when things don’t go well
No plan b
Doesn’t make subs
Never gives youth a chance
What does he say at half time
The only one I haven’t read so far on Smith is - lost the dressing room . Although I think that made an appearance last season.
I think I have read these for every manager that has come and gone so its quite standard and Smith is not actually doing anything different to what has gone before in some people’s opinions. He is fitting the type of failings we have had for years. Or ...
Actually they are just usual generic sound bites that get trotted out with not much thought and are easy to say but are not necessarily quantified in each case.
Or ..
They are common fault in most managers, certainly the level we are at and have been at and we may aswell put up with them and the next victim will be no different ...until we win something.
Having been on here long enough to have seen a few managers come and go. There is a bit of manager bingo that goes on when things don’t go well
No plan b
Doesn’t make subs
Never gives youth a chance
What does he say at half time
The only one I haven’t read so far on Smith is - lost the dressing room . Although I think that made an appearance last season.
I think I have read these for every manager that has come and gone so its quite standard and Smith is not actually doing anything different to what has gone before in some people’s opinions. He is fitting the type of failings we have had for years. Or ...
Actually they are just usual generic sound bites that get trotted out with not much thought and are easy to say but are not necessarily quantified in each case.
Or ..
They are common fault in most managers, certainly the level we are at and have been at and we may aswell put up with them and the next victim will be no different ...until we win something.
Villan57
Alert Team
Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
Barkley is not in the same class as Jack is and even in the first few games of the season when Barkley looked like a good player, he still was not as good as Jack and I don't think he ever will be. To progress as a club, we need someone who can get the team playing well even when Jack is not in the first team. I am fully aware there will be difference in the way we play when Jack is in the team vs when he is isn't, but it is not acceptable that we look clueless in games when he does not play. I will support any manager where I see that he is trying to implement a style of play of which there are traces visible but it will take time to develop fully. However, I am not seeing that with Dean, and now add to that playing favourites despite their poor form or replacing them with someone in form is again not acceptable.
I am sure you realise there is a difference between dropping 6 or 7 players vs dropping 1 !! So not sure why you even used that in your response.
I keep reading he is learning, what exactly? I do not see any learning. There are so many things he is doing which show he is doing anything but that. However, as long as we are in this temporary 8th position and as long as Jack is here, it will take time for others to realise he is not as good as the others think he is if/when Jack leaves, when the true quality of his managerial ability or lack of it will be clearly exposed.
Lastly, Ramsey of late has shown more than Ross has and on that alone he should be given more time than Ross has been given to show what he can do. Speaking of using logic, you are judging Ramsey based on the few inadequate chances he has been given to prove himself to say he has done nothing whereas are okay with Ross being given game after game to show he has done nothing, incredible !
Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
Are those not reasons why a manager should be replaced, or would you rather keep them in the job till kingdom come to get those things right?
garygaryshaw
Vital Football Hero
To be fair, I've heard the "no plan B" comment made to half the managers in the league. Rodgers and Klopp both get it thrown at them every now and then.
The flip side is you keep changing things around and get called a tinker man who doesn't know his best team or set up.
The way we played last season concerned me, as I didnt feel we looked particularly good in many games, so I too was asking for Deano to do something different.
This season however we've proved we are a match for anyone when we are on fire, its just getting the players back on form and re-installing their confidence
The flip side is you keep changing things around and get called a tinker man who doesn't know his best team or set up.
The way we played last season concerned me, as I didnt feel we looked particularly good in many games, so I too was asking for Deano to do something different.
This season however we've proved we are a match for anyone when we are on fire, its just getting the players back on form and re-installing their confidence
Stephen Jay Hawkings
Vital Football Legend
But those are reasons that are thrown at every manager, not just Villa managers.
We act like managing a football club is a piece of piss and anyone can do it. There could be a multitude of reasons behind every decision that Smith makes.
People bang on about Ancelotti, I've watched some Everton games this season where they have been dreadful, I guess he makes mistakes too, imagine that.
gmvillan
The Shackles Are Off!
This "No Plan B" has become the new cliche, yet I'm still waiting to see someone back-up the cliche with an actual "Plan B" that could be logically implemented during a match.
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