The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 346 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

Langoe66

Vital Squad Member
Two years on, I'm still to be convinced of what he's bringing to the club.

I'm still not convinced that he's getting a real tune out of a group of players that most/all of our peers (bottom half PL and below teams) would mostly kill for and that bothers me.

but I'm also pretty convinced that our relative success this year is likely down to Shakespeare as much, if not more, as Smith..
Reading through your post Bonker I get the feeling Smith won’t win you round whatever he does.

Two years on you’re not convinced as to what he’s bringing to the club?
Not quite sure what more he could have done to convince us that he was a decent appointment two years ago.....bottom half of the championship when appointed, promotion 7 months later, cup final, stayed up, best start in the prem for years including 7 goals against the champions....could we genuinely have expected much more in just 2 years?

Not getting a tune out of the players? Big improvement after lockdown, kept us in the division against the odds... Won four out of 5 so far this season...beaten Liverpool and Leicester...not quite sure how the start we’ve had could be considered to be ‘not getting a tune out of the players‘? What does he actually have to do going forward to get a tune out of the players? Never lose? Think this kind of criticism is unfair and completely unbalanced tbh...yes Leeds was a disappointment and in game management could possibly be questioned but not getting a tune out of the players after winning 4 out of 5? Looks like criticism for the sake of it.

And Shakespeare.....you suggest the four wins are generally due to his input...so basically if we do well it’ll be Shakespeare who you’ll credit but when we lose ie Leeds, it’ll probably having nothing to do with Shakespeare and be down to Smith.....which really suggests that he can’t win if that’s the case no matter how well we do.
Early days as you say and yes by Christmas we should have a pretty good idea where we stand going forward but as things stand right now, I really don’t think Smith can be criticised too much after steadying the ship after lockdown and starting the season with 12 out of 15. We all demanded improvement after lockdown...and thus far we’ve seen it!
 
We have improved and been improving ever since Deano has walked through the door and when you consider the player turnover and the fact that we are pretty much rebuilding the club from the youth set up upwards , something that he plays a big part in , then I have no complaints. Like all managers there will come a time when he reaches a glass ceiling and we will part ways but I don't think it is near yet.
 

Bonker

Vital 1st Team Regular
Reading through your post Bonker I get the feeling Smith won’t win you round whatever he does.

Two years on you’re not convinced as to what he’s bringing to the club?
Not quite sure what more he could have done to convince us that he was a decent appointment two years ago.....bottom half of the championship when appointed, promotion 7 months later, cup final, stayed up, best start in the prem for years including 7 goals against the champions....could we genuinely have expected much more in just 2 years?

Not getting a tune out of the players? Big improvement after lockdown, kept us in the division against the odds... Won four out of 5 so far this season...beaten Liverpool and Leicester...not quite sure how the start we’ve had could be considered to be ‘not getting a tune out of the players‘? What does he actually have to do going forward to get a tune out of the players? Never lose? Think this kind of criticism is unfair and completely unbalanced tbh...yes Leeds was a disappointment and in game management could possibly be questioned but not getting a tune out of the players after winning 4 out of 5? Looks like criticism for the sake of it.

And Shakespeare.....you suggest the four wins are generally due to his input...so basically if we do well it’ll be Shakespeare who you’ll credit but when we lose ie Leeds, it’ll probably having nothing to do with Shakespeare and be down to Smith.....which really suggests that he can’t win if that’s the case no matter how well we do.
Early days as you say and yes by Christmas we should have a pretty good idea where we stand going forward but as things stand right now, I really don’t think Smith can be criticised too much after steadying the ship after lockdown and starting the season with 12 out of 15. We all demanded improvement after lockdown...and thus far we’ve seen it!
It'll take time to win me around because when I see such p*sspoor game management from him, consistently last season setting negative records that should have had us relegated, and against Leeds last week then I can't help but think the guy is limited at this level.

We had no right at all to get promoted when we did from 6th place and we survived by a single point last season. Early days and we rode our luck? Sure, I'll take that but as I tried to point out in my post, when looking at it all in the round, I'm really not sure that DS is bringing anything to the *PL* party than pretty much any other manager out there could, as aligned with CDX's follow-up post re the big majority of managers being pretty average.

I have no problem with us losing to Leeds but honestly, that 0-3 scoreline really flattered us IMO. I'll take losses like that all the time if the other side are just brilliant and score with most of their attempts on goal but Leeds didn't, they averaged a shot on goal almost every three minutes over the 90 and that's very much harking back to our 2019 form when our defence was absolutely battered every game because we never had the ball.

There are some very, very good managers in the PL and Bielsa is one of them - again, I don't have high expectations of DS vs the Bielsa's of this world because I think I am realistic about DS's ability at this level but he was schooled, and then some, on Friday and getting battered like that can rock the confidence levels in the players re the manager's own ability.

I repeat, it's not the loss that wobbles me, it's the manner of it and the apparent inability to do anything at all about it as it was the same almost all the way through the game with Leeds just passing straight through us into space time and again - he needed to stem the bleeding and compress the midfield so we could reset ourselves but he didn't do that, or anything. There's quite a track record here too of poor second half displays and that is equally concerning IMO.

All that said, we were pretty awesome against Liverpool and I thought the Leicester performance, against another top manager, was impressive so I won't be taking the Leeds game in isolation to use as a stick against DS but it did wobble me in terms of DS' apparent inability to do anything about one or two of his star players having a bad game. Bielsa pulled his midfielder off after 20 minutes because he could see how it was going to go there but DS couldn't improve things even after 90 minutes and that worries me as other teams and managers become more tuned in to how to pull us to pieces.
 
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mike_field

Vital Football Legend
It'll take time to win me around because when I see such p*sspoor game management from him, consistently last season setting negative records that should have had us relegated, and against Leeds last week then I can't help but think the guy is limited at this level.

We had no right at all to get promoted when we did from 6th place and we survived by a single point last season. Early days and we rode our luck? Sure, I'll take that but as I tried to point out in my post, when looking at it all in the round, I'm really not sure that DS is bringing anything to the *PL* party than pretty much any other manager out there could, as aligned with CDX's follow-up post re the big majority of managers being pretty average.

I have no problem with us losing to Leeds but honestly, that 0-3 scoreline really flattered us IMO. I'll take losses like that all the time if the other side are just brilliant and score with most of their attempts on goal but Leeds didn't, they averaged a shot on goal almost every three minutes over the 90 and that's very much harking back to our 2019 form when our defence was absolutely battered every game because we never had the ball.

There are some very, very good managers in the PL and Bielsa is one of them - again, I don't have high expectations of DS vs the Bielsa's of this world because I think I am realistic about DS's ability at this level but he was schooled, and then some, on Friday and getting battered like that can rock the confidence levels in the players re the manager's own ability.

I repeat, it's not the loss that wobbles me, it's the manner of it and the apparent inability to do anything at all about it as it was the same almost all the way through the game with Leeds just passing straight through us into space time and again - he needed to stem the bleeding and compress the midfield so we could reset ourselves but he didn't do that, or anything. There's quite a track record here too of poor second half displays and that is equally concerning IMO.

All that said, we were pretty awesome against Liverpool and I thought the Leicester performance, against another top manager, was impressive so I won't be taking the Leeds game in isolation to use as a stick against DS but it did wobble me in terms of DS' apparent inability to do anything about one or two of his star players having a bad game. Bielsa pulled his midfielder off after 20 minutes because he could see how it was going to go there but DS couldn't improve things even after 90 minutes and that worries me as other teams and managers become more tuned in to how to pull us to pieces.
Totally disagree, 3-0 flattered them and the ref after our heads went. Until then, we were the more dangerous side and had created the far better tactics.

Yes Trez off and somebody to protect Cash was a mistake, we just needed a proper decision our way, a touch more composure and another gear and we'd have blown them away despite the having 90% of possession and 20 plus shots out of the stadium.

That's why I was so pissed at the final whistle. If Leeds had dominated in the way you and others have said, I'd have held my hands up.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
It does make me chuckle that Bielsa is made out to be some sort of tactical genius for subbing a player after 20 mins , when the whole world and his wife knew he was one foul away from a red card. Just plain common sense to make the sub , nothing more , nothing less.
It's the sad state of football journalism. He did this last season (or the season before) to Kalvin Phillips when he was booked early and was likely to get a red. As you say, it's a sense substitute not brilliance, all managers at one time or another do it when you can see so easily a red is incoming.

And I say that as a Bielsa fan.
 

gmvillan

The Shackles Are Off!
More DS angled (his game management etc) than Leeds directly I think? Albeit Leeds is the latch.
Some on here having a massive hangover from Leeds... Imagine if we dare to not beat Southampton.... I think I’ll go back to avoiding this site like I did the match thread In the past...
I think the criticism that stems from the Leeds match begins and ends with the lack of substitutions, particularly on the right side and central midfield. A mistake for sure, but certainly not reason to write the man off....
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
I was one with my criticism, hence today's job about treating Leeds in isolation when it came to DS's own changes and what he can't be blamed for etc.

No point in that though, if you're a calmer voice as the likes of me get the red mist you're a balance. It's a forum, it's what we do. It's football and life GM - I remember watching England at work and having to hastily repair a cupboard I kicked in when Sol Campbell had a goal disallowed (whilst keeping up with my job).

We all lose it, might as well lose it as mates!
 
Bielsa is obviously a very good manager, but I don't like his style. Wouldn't want it at Villa. I'm happy with our first four matches this season. Not the fifth, responsibility must lie with both DS and the players. But I can move on from that.
 

Melon Donkey

Vital Football Legend
It'll take time to win me around because when I see such p*sspoor game management from him, consistently last season setting negative records that should have had us relegated, and against Leeds last week then I can't help but think the guy is limited at this level.

We had no right at all to get promoted when we did from 6th place and we survived by a single point last season. .
Sorry. Stopped reading at this point. Comments like this really undermine any decent points you may make about Smith.

We had a every right to get promoted.
Why?.
Because we got enough points to get in the play offs and then to be the best side in the play offs as per the competition rules.

If you were at Wembley you must have been the only person out of nigh on 40,000 villa fans thinking ... we have no right to be doing this :lol:.
Feel really sad for you not enjoying it because I had a whale of a time March until May 2019 that will live long in my villa supporting career .

Should have been relegated ?
No we shouldn’t .
Why?
Because as per competition rules we got more points than 3rd from bottom as is required. Not saying we were great, but we were one point good enough to stay up. Acceptable. No . But nevertheless factually correct

Crtiticse Smith as is your want but you trying to spin things a way to suit your argument.