The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 334 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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In the last 7 years only Man City Man Utd and Chelsea have won it. It’s clubs like us that can’t afford to play 11 reserves that are devaluing it I’m afraid.




You’ve completely missed my point. I agree the clubs that keep winning it do so because they have superior players and more of them. They can afford to rest players and still put out a quality team. Teams like us are devaluing the competition because we are putting out impoverished teams that are unlikely to progress further by choice. We don’t have to. We can put better players in to try to compete but we don’t. Having said that, all the top teams played more first team players than us so I repeat, we are devaluing the competition by putting out teams that we wouldn’t cross the road to watch. Not one of them in our first choice eleven players.
I get the point Wicked, but if you go back to my very original post I said that the top six, the big teams, call them what you will have devalued it "over the years".
They put out 2nd string sides when us lesser clubs were still trying to win it, because it was a decent cup in its own right.
But after years and years of the top clubs doing that, whilst at the same time building squads none of us could live with they have become so powerful that not only do they dominate the League Cup, but the FA Cup has also seen, probably only three winner in the last thirty odd years that arent top six.
A lot of the Prem sides are only there to make up the numbers in the draw.
 
Just to add to the above Wicked, we had the chances to have won comfortably last night, and we didnt take them.
We wouldnt be having this conversation if we had converted them.
 
I think that the true test of our progress in terms of the quality of the squad, and the degree to which Deano has learned from last season, will be how Villa perform against the teams around us.

Beating the strugglers at the very bottom, and losing against the very top teams clearly tell us nothing (so the Liverpool game is a free hit and then move on).

The key to the mid table comfort we all seek lies in taking enough points off Burnley, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Newcastle, Southampton etc.

I still maintain there is more to this than just squad quality. To be anywhere near effective and consistent enough to get those points we need to see this bunch of strangers formed into a coherent team who are drilled and prepped properly in the system that Dean wants to play.

I know some people don't like the comparison in part because of being a local rival and also because of a bit of sour grapes and jealousy etc, but purely from a coaching standpoint when Nuno took charge of Wolves, and even before the Mendes players started to appear, it took him the matter of about a month to 6 weeks to organise his players and get them playing his system as a team.

My main criticism of Dean last season was that he was clearly struggling to implement the system he chose (and whether it was the right system approach for the first year back and to avoid relegation). For 34 games we looked a shambles, even accounting for not having the right players brought in and them taking time to settle - they always looked utterly clueless and under prepared, like a bunch of strangers playing for the first time and not really understanding their roles. This is coaching 101 and that's why I was so scathing match after match because it wasn't improving, it was visibly getting worse which is another sign that the coach isn't competent or doing his job properly.

Now after lockdown at least we saw some pragmatism, and to his credit Dean had clearly worked with the players to be more cagey and not concede so early.

But, in a new season what I think we now need to see is more progress in making a team out of the better players he has at his disposal. Based on how long he has had and the lack of sustained progress so far you can appreciate even if you don't agree, that I remain pretty sceptical of his actual ability to do the most critical and accountable part of his job - form a team to get results at the top level.

Time will tell and hopefully as I keep repeating, that the decision from Dean to bolster his coaching support with Craig Shakespeare will bear fruit and that Craig is able to practically implement what Dean couldn't do in 18 months. I wish them both every success because sorting out the basics across the team is worth more than any number of expensive signings by themselves.

Very good post and much along my own line of thinking re the issue now shouldn't be about individual players but whether a genuine team is showing itself yet.

I've got my doubts, even taking into account the huge churn post-Championship. New players should be slotting into our various system(s??) within a couple of months otherwise there's obviously something wrong.

He's got a bunch more new players now and the quality has clearly improved so there's no excuses to not be showing very obvious performance/points improvements over last season.

Yes, it's the bottom half teams we need to be sucking the life out of - giving six points to Bournemouth(?!) last season was just beyond the pale and pretty much directly led to us sweating it all the way to the last day of the season.

If he can't manage games better than last season then we're still going to have problems but it looked like the penny had dropped post-lockdown so I expect that to be sorted on an ongoing basis.

Just like last season, we won't know until we know but let's see what we can get out of October - we likely won't get a result on Sunday but the performance and any hints of a team forming again (we were awesome in this fixture last time) will do for me right now.
 
I think Smith will take us to around 11th/12th this season. For me that's decent progress given the state of us last season, we barely survived after all.

I also think that there will come a point where we will have to replace him in order to push on and become a consistent top 10 (or better) side.

Spot-on IMO mate.
 
One of the sights from the game last night was Dean Smith standing on the touch line looking miserable. What happens in the lead up to a match? He said after a couple of minutes it was obvious the players were treating it like a training match. Isn't it up to him to get them out there playing in the right frame of mind? Does he rely on players like Mings, Jack, SJM producing the right spirit?

Suggestions such as that are why some (including me) will have pulled the handbrake with respect to our hopes for this season and caused questions to be raised in our minds as to whether there's an issue there that could (still?) harm us this season, despite the new players.
 
Obviously smith has been told to prioritise prem footy after last year but the Stoke game said a lot about fringe players and players who have been here too long. Not good enough & Davies is the perfect example, one good game with hustle & bustle but no goal threat, most of them mediocre championship players picking up good money. Smith looked lost with the Stoke performance & typically didn’t change much at half time. I’m not convinced with him one bit & big money has been spent. Sunday is his first test.he will only get 3 tests probably by the owners
 
Think we're reading things into our exit from the Carabao Cup that just aren't there. We played reserve teams when we were in the EFL, we've played the reserves in every round this season. DS was not happy with the performance, but he was quite within his rights to expect the team he selected to compete, show a bit of quality and finish a couple of guilt edged chances.

I don't see this as a stick to beat him with, the players were way below the standards they set at Bristol. Shit happens, move on. The league is where we must judge him.
 
Obviously smith has been told to prioritise prem footy after last year but the Stoke game said a lot about fringe players and players who have been here too long. Not good enough & Davies is the perfect example, one good game with hustle & bustle but no goal threat, most of them mediocre championship players picking up good money. Smith looked lost with the Stoke performance & typically didn’t change much at half time. I’m not convinced with him one bit & big money has been spent. Sunday is his first test.he will only get 3 tests probably by the owners
Surely Rafa must be bored of China by now
 
Think we're reading things into our exit from the Carabao Cup that just aren't there. We played reserve teams when we were in the EFL, we've played the reserves in every round this season. DS was not happy with the performance, but he was quite within his rights to expect the team he selected to compete, show a bit of quality and finish a couple of guilt edged chances.

I don't see this as a stick to beat him with, the players were way below the standards they set at Bristol. Shit happens, move on. The league is where we must judge him.
So what's the aim? Where do we need to finish in the league to justify not trying to win a cup?
 
I don't think 17th is to be honest, but then I've been following Villa since 1990 and I can actually remember us being good.

For me and with the players we've bought in I genuinely think 14th would justify it, I think if we're lucky with injuries and Deano makes the right changes at the right time I believe we could actually finish around 10th.

But I don't want to be screaming at the TV at the 60th minute for a change when it's obvious for everyone, to then allow a team back into the game and then make the change at 80-85th minute (Riding our luck).
I don't know what he is watching sometimes, you can see the game swing, against Fulham could of easily been 3-1 with that goal disallowed, and then confidence high as they were pressing us 3-2 and then we could easily be talking about a different match.

Fortunately we aren't and we came away with a comfortable 3 points, But against sides like Liverpool you can't ride your luck and you need to react and make changes when you can see the tide turn.
 
ffs - he could see it after a couple of minutes, why the hell wait until half time to do what - naff all. Just poor.
It makes you think "what would Jose have done?". He probably would've made a double substitution after 30 mins. And he would have at least had the likes of McGinn and Grealish on the bench.
 
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