The myth of over achieving

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Over the last few seasons, I keep reading the use of terms 'over achieving' and 'punching above our weight' Why? A boxer starts at the lower tier of the weight category, improves and builds his physique and moves up a category, but nonetheless, he is punching at his weight...No? So, we have a squad that is being assembled, coached, and developed and continues to produce the results their hard work deserves. So, I ask, why are we over achieving? We are continuing to break records and our season-end tally will most likely break another record. This is not a one season anomaly but culmination of all the hard work and imo, we have arrived at a NEW level and are punching within our remit with hopefully more improvements to come. I just feel such terms used loosely belittle our achievements. No?.... COYS!
 
Critical_Spur - 9/4/2017 17:31

Over the last few seasons, I keep reading the use of terms 'over achieving' and 'punching above our weight' Why? A boxer starts at the lower tier of the weight category, improves and builds his physique and moves up a category, but nonetheless, he is punching at his weight...No? So, we have a squad that is being assembled, coached, and developed and continues to produce the results their hard work deserves. So, I ask, why are we over achieving? We are continuing to break records and our season-end tally will most likely break another record. This is not a one season anomaly but culmination of all the hard work and imo, we have arrived at a NEW level and are punching within our remit with hopefully more improvements to come. I just feel such terms used loosely belittle our achievements. No?.... COYS!
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Since the start of the PL you can almost predict who will be in the top 4 based on revenue generated, only Everton, Blackburn (who had Jack Walkers millions) and Leicester have bucked that trend in 26 years.
We are about to do it for the 3rd time, something none of the other clubs mentioned have manage to do.
As for your boxers analogy, his performance is mostly based on a single person ability and desire. A football team progress is generally based on quality of squad (which by and large is down to finance) and management.
Saying we are over achieving is not belittling their achievement, in fact it is quite the opposite IMO
 
topspur1, thanks for engaging in the debate, I guess, the question I was asking was what criteria is applied when using those terms.

In your opinion, "A football team progress is generally based on quality of squad (which by and large is down to finance) and management."

Well, that is precisely the issue I have with the interpretation. Just because we didn't use our financial powers to assemble a quality squad, but did so via a different route, we are over achieving. May be the bench marks will change with time as more and more clubs progress via our approach.

Well, for some we overachieved last season and also put it down to the big guns having a season off....now that we are even better placed, I'd say we have arrived at the top table, deservingly. We are one of the heavy-weights!
 
Critical_Spur - 9/4/2017 18:52

topspur1, thanks for engaging in the debate, I guess, the question I was asking was what criteria is applied when using those terms.

In your opinion, "A football team progress is generally based on quality of squad (which by and large is down to finance) and management."

Well, that is precisely the issue I have with the interpretation. Just because we didn't use our financial powers to assemble a quality squad, but did so via a different route, we are over achieving. May be the bench marks will change with time as more and more clubs progress via our approach.

Well, for some we overachieved last season and also put it down to the big guns having a season off....now that we are even better placed, I'd say we have arrived at the top table, deservingly. We are one of the heavy-weights!
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I would agree with most of your comments, but I don't believe we have arrived at the top table as yet. But IMO we are so close, financially we still cannot compete.
But it is not financially, we do not as yet have the status in Europe where players want to come to us. So we are not at the top table.
Chelski and Citeh addressed this by paying inflated transfer fees and salaries, I honestly hope we don't go down that road.
IMO it's bad for football, you start paying over the odds for players and it only result in over inflated egos, and lack of ambition.
 
Critical_Spur - 9/4/2017 17:31

Over the last few seasons, I keep reading the use of terms 'over achieving' and 'punching above our weight' Why? A boxer starts at the lower tier of the weight category, improves and builds his physique and moves up a category, but nonetheless, he is punching at his weight...No? So, we have a squad that is being assembled, coached, and developed and continues to produce the results their hard work deserves. So, I ask, why are we over achieving? We are continuing to break records and our season-end tally will most likely break another record. This is not a one season anomaly but culmination of all the hard work and imo, we have arrived at a NEW level and are punching within our remit with hopefully more improvements to come. I just feel such terms used loosely belittle our achievements. No?.... COYS!
Click to expand...

Are you under the impression that boxers start off skinny and bulk up over time? Otherwise I can't really work out what that analogy is meant to say.
 
Over achieving or getting better?

The latter makes more sense.

Everyone focussed on the same goal and buying into that direction helps an entity become more than the sum of its parts.

Chelsea is the sum of its parts. No more. No less.
 
ahx00, sorry if I confused anyone, or even myself (have done that in the past!!), basically suggesting SOME boxers move up a category as part their natural development (skill/technique and weight). So when they do progress, surely they are still punching at their (new) weight.

We get good results against Utd, City, Chavs or Arse, peeps suggest we are overachieving.

As 80 deg points out, we are getting better. This new found level (the raised bar) is our new barometer. We are now punching at this weight. We are more consistent, we are more mature, mentally and physically to compete at a higher level. So why do Spurs fans understate our achievements?

Anyway, that's my Sunday :6: :6:
 
We are certainly not punching above our weight in Europe which for me defines a team of real ability.

We are not really punching above our weight in the PL either. We have the best defence in the league. A very good MF with Wanyama , Dier and Dembele, Winks coming through. A fantastic talent in Alli, Eriksen as creator, Kane as a 100 mil striker . A very good manager who nurtures youth and manages the players with emotional intelligence.
Where we are is arguably about right even though we had too many draws.

City have the class and ability but a poor defence and perhaps not the team spirit. Man U are an accident waiting to happen with their manager. Wenger is finished. Liverpool are doing ok and are on our tails .

I don't think we are punching above our weight. Lewis Hamilton was with Nicole though.
 
Nick Real Deal - 9/4/2017 23:22

We are certainly not punching above our weight in Europe which for me defines a team of real ability.

We are not really punching above our weight in the PL either. We have the best defence in the league. A very good MF with Wanyama , Dier and Dembele, Winks coming through. A fantastic talent in Alli, Eriksen as creator, Kane as a 100 mil striker . A very good manager who nurtures youth and manages the players with emotional intelligence.
Where we are is arguably about right even though we had too many draws.

City have the class and ability but a poor defence and perhaps not the team spirit. Man U are an accident waiting to happen with their manager. Wenger is finished. Liverpool are doing ok and are on our tails .

I don't think we are punching above our weight. Lewis Hamilton was with Nicole though.
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Forget Europe Nick, the whole of the PL punches below it's weight and quality and that won't change anytime soon.

The term in relation to the Premier league is because for long periods, if not for all of it's existence you could equate financial muscle off the pitch to almost define how a club would perform on it and where it would finish.

So based on both our historical revenues and transfer spends in comparison to most, if not all our competitors in the 'upper league' of the PL, we ARE punching above our weight every single time we manage a top 4 finish.

If you calculated over the life of the PL the net spend on transfers, we'd (depending on timing) would be at best a 6th placed finish team and on average a 6-8th place finish team.

So the years in which we do finish Top 4 means that we are 'over-achieving' - of course when this happens the reasons for it are an open debate, i.e. coaching, tactics, good buying, developed from the academy, luck or otherwise in injuries, squad depth and on and on.

By any measure, objective or subjective we are currently over-performing, but that said our capital employed on the pitch in terms of ration to t/o is at it's PL all time high, couple that with what we have produced and sold from our academy in recent years and we've broken the glass ceiling and now can genuinely hope to establish ourselves as a regular 'Top 4' / Cup competitor.
 
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