The Carabao Cup Thread | Page 82 | Vital Football

The Carabao Cup Thread

If they are worried that missing one penalty will shatter their confidence to such an extent that it will harm their careers, then they should forget about progressing and give up. This isn't for the weak.

I agree with your overall premise but there have been many great players who suffer a crisis of confidence and were never the same after it. Fernando Torres for example. Lets think of those promising players we've thrown to the wolves and they went nowhere. These athletes are people too. I would think it worth it to protect an amazing player even if it isnt clear they could handle it for their entire career. Plenty of lads who started out amazing and then broke down.

If protecting Archer now to boost his confidence which in turn speeds up his development I think thats a good thing. Maybe recognizing some arent ready and that they don't have the maturity at 18/19 yet is the smart play. Give them responsibility as they develop and give them time to build that mental strength. Throwing them to the dogs and watching them get torn apart is just a quick way to find the players who have one specific trait.

Lets not boil down their mental strength to one point in time and say thats how its always going to be.
 
Bit of a contrast between "the kids should have been taking the penalties" and "the kids shouldn't have been playing if we were serious about the competition".

Me, I think DS got it right on both counts. To maintain the quality in the squad he had to play the players who'd been sitting it out on the bench, and also get the kids who were too good to send out on loan playing. I think the performance totally justified that decision. Re penalties, he had players with the experience on the pitch and it would have been daft not to use them.

Marv took a good penalty and the keeper guessed right. Ash put just a bit too much on it. It happens. Another great Anwar penalty by the way.
 
I agree with your overall premise but there have been many great players who suffer a crisis of confidence and were never the same after it. Fernando Torres for example. Lets think of those promising players we've thrown to the wolves and they went nowhere. These athletes are people too. I would think it worth it to protect an amazing player even if it isnt clear they could handle it for their entire career. Plenty of lads who started out amazing and then broke down.

If protecting Archer now to boost his confidence which in turn speeds up his development I think thats a good thing. Maybe recognizing some arent ready and that they don't have the maturity at 18/19 yet is the smart play. Give them responsibility as they develop and give them time to build that mental strength. Throwing them to the dogs and watching them get torn apart is just a quick way to find the players who have one specific trait.

Lets not boil down their mental strength to one point in time and say thats how its always going to be.
Well that would be down to DS again, and if he thinks they have the mental aptitude to do it, and they must have, especially to lead the line away at Chelsea, then as I’ve already said, age is completely irrelevant (and that’s what I’m trying to push here, their age) and for every 1 Fernando Torres there are a thousand who don’t fall apart, it’s the sweeping generalisation on here that because he’s 19 he can’t cope!
Would’ve have loved to hear Cantona, Keane, Mortimer, etc response to being told we don’t want to knock your confidence so you’re not taking one.
As anyone thought about how telling them they’re to young to take one might also knock their confidence.
 
I am just taking up the other side El Toro, fact of the matter is none of us know (unless I missed something in a press conference). Someone has extrapolated an idea from the outcome. The truth of the matter is the kids actually would have had to take the most high-pressure penalties of the lot had it gone that far.

As far as we know the senior players may have been the ones to all step up on their own and truthfully other than Marv you'd probably pick those same lads to take them anyway. He who shall not be named never took peno's, the only time I remember him stepping up Glenn Whelan took the ball off him.

I just disagree with the general premise of boiling everything down to the lowest possible thing. And I agree with you the assumption that because he's 19 he isnt ready is bollocks too. It cuts both ways though. At 19 they might not be ready for a social media storm or a 19 he could have the mentality of Mellberg, who knows.
 
I am just taking up the other side El Toro, fact of the matter is none of us know (unless I missed something in a press conference). Someone has extrapolated an idea from the outcome. The truth of the matter is the kids actually would have had to take the most high-pressure penalties of the lot had it gone that far.

As far as we know the senior players may have been the ones to all step up on their own and truthfully other than Marv you'd probably pick those same lads to take them anyway. He who shall not be named never took peno's, the only time I remember him stepping up Glenn Whelan took the ball off him.

I just disagree with the general premise of boiling everything down to the lowest possible thing. And I agree with you the assumption that because he's 19 he isnt ready is bollocks too. It cuts both ways though. At 19 they might not be ready for a social media storm or a 19 he could have the mentality of Mellberg, who knows.
Agreed mate.
 
I agree with your overall premise but there have been many great players who suffer a crisis of confidence and were never the same after it. Fernando Torres for example. Lets think of those promising players we've thrown to the wolves and they went nowhere. These athletes are people too. I would think it worth it to protect an amazing player even if it isnt clear they could handle it for their entire career. Plenty of lads who started out amazing and then broke down.

If protecting Archer now to boost his confidence which in turn speeds up his development I think thats a good thing. Maybe recognizing some arent ready and that they don't have the maturity at 18/19 yet is the smart play. Give them responsibility as they develop and give them time to build that mental strength. Throwing them to the dogs and watching them get torn apart is just a quick way to find the players who have one specific trait.

Lets not boil down their mental strength to one point in time and say thats how its always going to be.

My personal view is that it should be down to the player if he wants to take a penalty. But I disagree with anyone who says they should be insulated from the aftermath of missing a pen by not letting them take one in the first place.
 
Just watched the 2nd half of the 2020 final v Citeh that is being shown on Sky.

We did pretty well actually that half looking at the side we had. Better than I remember.

We were well in it .

Imagine if that header had gone in, would’ve been pandemonium.

And also allowed me to have celebrated a goal in the stands, rather than in the loos as I desperately needed a pee as Marv nodded our only goal home :ooops: lesson learnt
 
Guts
I was proud of the boys, it was a great effort
Gutsy 90 minutes. Jack was anonymous as l think his fitness was an issue.If that late header had gone in, we would have maybe won on pens as l believe it wea spot kicks after 90 minutes. No denying the guld in class versus £Oilchester but proud to be a Villaboy that day,as always.