The Juicing thread ( healthy nutrition or not)

U

upthevilla

Vital 1st Team Regular
There's been a few eyebrows raised on here over my 'fad' dieting, so just wanted to open the debate on juicing, and smoothies.

I have researched books by the Hippocrates Institute, Victoria Boutenko, and others as well as watching documentaries (all available on YouTube) such as 'Fat, sick and nearly dead' , 'the' juicing documentary, the 5:2 fast diet ( not sure what that's called on YouTube, but look up Dr Moseley if interested), so it's not something I do on just a whim.

The books and the documentaries have practically all taken people with serious health conditions such as diabetes, severe Crohn's disease, heart disease, high cholesterol, fibromyalgia, morbid obesity, rheumatism and arthritis etc and these people are put on a smoothie and or juice diet.
In Jason Vale's 'the' Juicing Documentary, 8 people with varying illnesses went on a 28 day detox with smoothies and juices and every single one of them overturned their conditions not just a fraction, but near enough totally. One man taking 60 tablets a day for a range of conditions including diabetes was after a month down to just 2 tablets a day and was looking to be tablet free ( which he may or may not have achieved). At the end of the programme, other juicers not featured in the programme informed us of how it helped with other illnesses including breast cancer (can't recall if juicing was used to fight the illness or recovery from the illness.... It's been a few weeks since I watched it).
These levels of recovery from life threatening illnesses, and even mild ones, run through every one of the books, documentaries etc I've highlighted.
In Dr Moseleys book the 5:2 diet, research has proved that regular fasting ( even short fasts) markedly reduce the risks f Diabetes, Alzheimer's, heart disease, stroke etc, etc. Now, I know we've advanced massively over the years, but with these benefits, did the ancients know something we are just beginning to get wind of again ( see what I did there?)Why does every religion fast? Is it maybe not a religion thing, just something the people all did because they were aware of the benefits, and was just written in the scriptures for the record?
Anyway, luckily I don't have any major health worries, and I want to keep it that way with regular fasts, and the weight management is a bonus.


 
....... And before someone questions the protein content, don't horses live almost entirely on grass, yet are solid muscle? Grass (wheatgrass) lambs lettuce, rocket, salads, brocolli, chards, cabbages etc in their UNCOOKED form, when blended or juiced havE a great balance of amino acids, the building blocks of protein.
Using meat as a means of protein requires more effort because the meat has to be broken down into amino acids then converted to protein. This digestion utilises a huge amount of energy, so getting protein from a plant source saves your energy and saves you a 'step'.
It's worth noting that green sources of protein have to be either juiced or blended to provide high levels of protein........ Or chewed to a creamy consistency to get the benefits ( and that means chewing it loads before swallowing).
 
The 5:2 makes sense to me, having read and watched a few decent bits and bobs on it.

I used to juice fast during ill times when I couldn't exercise and I did lose weight, but never permanent weight, it always comes back on when you start eating again.

Juicing is a nice way to detox and clear the system I think, but torturing yourself for day after day to me, having done such things over the years, just isn't worth it.

As said, the 5:2 seems to be gaining in fans and showing to help key health indicators.

For me, whilst training especially, I'm needing to fuel up and so juicing wouldn't do at all.

Not totally convinced you do need to juice it though, you lose a lot of the fibre doing it that way, there is nothing wrong with eating the fruit, veg, salad etc. Or blending so that you don't lose fibre?
 
Juicing is very healthy - I've looked into this in detail but, and it's a very very very big but, it's difficult to live on just juices and get enough calories for the body to not go into starvation mode. Remember that an average adult male needs at least 2000 kcal per day and up to 2500 kcal, anything less than this will lead to a calorie deficiency, which leaves you in danger of the body entering starvation mode and then doing all it can to preserve fat storage by using muscle as a fuel source instead, very bad for so many reasons, not least that one of the muscles often used is the heart, meaning you then have a weaker heart, not to mention a reduced metabolic rate.

The other issue is what you juice, too much fruit is not good as, in order to control absorption, we need to consume the fibre with the sugars and juicing removes most of the non-soluable fibre.

Forget worries about protein, on average, vegetable matter contains more than 9% protein (admittedly not close to meat) which, as long as you consume enough to get your 2000-2500 kcal per day, is plenty. Of greater concern are the B vitamins and essential oils, in particular Omega 3. For the body to use omega 3 it needs to be in its short chain molecular form and all vegetable sources are long chain. The body can convert long chain to short chain but it does so at a ratio of approx 20 long chain:1 short chain, meaning that you need to consume 20 times the amount. Or take a supplement.

If you don't want to supplement with pills/capsules then you should consider supplementing with beans, nuts and avocados, great sources of B vitamins and oils, but you will still struggle to get B12 (very common in red meats), the best non-meat source for B12 is yeast (If not for the salt content a Marmite drink each day would suffice. Personally I would just take a multi-complex B vitamin supplement.

One other nutrient that you may struggle with is electrolytic salts (mainly sodium but others too). A decent natural source for electrolytic salts is coconut water (not coconut milk). Alternatively, take an Alka-Seltzer drink each day - it's a bit of a cheat but it works.

 
You Faddy Fad Fad!

I think the unhealthy angle is when you start concentrating too many fruits and get a lot of sugar hitting your system. I have green smoothies which are allegedly very good.
 
The problem with most green smoothies/juices is that they taste like crap.


 
True! Can't argue that one!

My favourite - head of Romain lettuce, spinach, 1 apple and pear, root ginger to taste (a lot in my case), 1 banana, chia seeds, lemon juice and water. Lurveley. Lasts about 3-days in the fridge so I have a glass a day.
 
Not bothered by the taste, just the goodness. I use green powder and sometimes kale or spinach powder just for a change.

It is the fact the fibre helps the body deal with the fruit sugars (to some extent) that makes me not want to juice much.

I do blend though, my weight training drink of choice is watermelon, some mango and some berries (the latter two I buy frozen) blend, put some water with it and I've got a great drink to use through a training session.
 
upthevilla - 5/11/2014 10:01

There's been a few eyebrows raised on here over my 'fad' dieting, so just wanted to open the debate on juicing, and smoothies.
Click to expand...



When done correctly juicing is great and most certainly benificial to health, not so much the fruit smoothies which can be too much sugar, but green is great, I get plenty of protein and highly recommend it. :35:

My problem was not with juicing, just the way you are doing it.

"Diet wise again not totally disciplined really, a mixture of very good with occasional bad thrown in, eg did a 5 day juice and smoothie detox about a fortnight ago, (starting a 7 day one tomorrow) whilst trying to make the transition from vegetarian to vegan, but the 5 day fast ended the same day as Veganfest and I've pretty much caned 4 bars of raw chocolate in the last week as well as having 3 celebration meals out this week"

Juicing is fine, but when you come off eat healthily, what's the point in juicing just to cover the bad? Although that does seem to be very common and THAT makes it a fad, it's the main reason I steer people away from it, most just can not be strict enough, they come off the detox/fast and the cravings take over and ruin all the good work, you have to commit fully and have the self control to handle it, especially when you are doing it with any regularity.

You put so much effort into this, I just want you to get ALL the benefits you are working for, don't you?



 
Could it not cause long term damage? As in the body just getting used to a liquid diet and if after so many years wouldn't re-introducing solid food cause problems?
 
Juan Mourep - 5/11/2014 17:25

upthevilla - 5/11/2014 10:01

There's been a few eyebrows raised on here over my 'fad' dieting, so just wanted to open the debate on juicing, and smoothies.
Click to expand...



When done correctly juicing is great and most certainly benificial to health, not so much the fruit smoothies which can be too much sugar, but green is great, I get plenty of protein and highly recommend it. :35:

My problem was not with juicing, just the way you are doing it.

"Diet wise again not totally disciplined really, a mixture of very good with occasional bad thrown in, eg did a 5 day juice and smoothie detox about a fortnight ago, (starting a 7 day one tomorrow) whilst trying to make the transition from vegetarian to vegan, but the 5 day fast ended the same day as Veganfest and I've pretty much caned 4 bars of raw chocolate in the last week as well as having 3 celebration meals out this week"

Juicing is fine, but when you come off eat healthily, what's the point in juicing just to cover the bad? Although that does seem to be very common and THAT makes it a fad, it's the main reason I steer people away from it, most just can not be strict enough, they come off the detox/fast and the cravings take over and ruin all the good work, you have to commit fully and have the self control to handle it, especially when you are doing it with any regularity.

You put so much effort into this, I just want you to get ALL the benefits you are working for, don't you?
Click to expand...

Fair comments. It was just one of those weeks though. Started with Veganfest on the Saturday where I didn't eat anything, but stocked up on supplies, then the moseley farmers market where I stocked up on a variety of green veg, followed by meeting up with a friend on the evening I hadn't seen in 9 or 10 yrs for a curry, vege breakfast to celebrate my 'saints day' on Monday (don't ask..... More for my religious mum, not me), and Sisters birthday on Sunday. The curry was the worst of the meals, and is a one off nowadays, the 4 bars of (raw) chocolate over 8 days is half a bar of chocolate a day, but all this in combination over a week for me is what I'd consider bad.

I'll probably lapse every now and then, but as long as for every step backwards there's two forwards I'm not going to beat myself up over it.

I've no problem with green smoothies and juices though, and I've come up with a brilliant (I think) way of having a mixture of different greens at the same time. First I juice all the greens and mix together - carrot tops, beet tops, kale, brocolli, rocket, lambs lettuce, watercress, lollo rosso, sprout tops, mixed chards, spinach, cauliflower leaves, herbs etc. Some of the juice is then made into ice cubes, and I'll have about 3 every morning with juiced ginger, and the rest is added to the fibre and blended in a Blendtec mixer and again made into cubes for smoothies. This means that I can have a ready supply of mostly organic greens for smoothies available with no waste.

As with many lifestyle changes, there's going to be blips. I thought vegan was going to be hard, but having recently had my eyes opened to how disgustingly cruel the dairy and egg industry is, I think cutting it out of my diet won't be that hard, and as things stand My girlfriend and I are only finishing what Quorn etc is left in the freezer, whilst we make the full transition and totally rethink, or alter the recipes of the staples that we have come to rely on. Any advice on a good vegan cookbook/ veganism/ vegan replacements and products etc would be much appreciated.
 
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