The Cowleys in talks with Sheffield Wednesday? | Page 35 | Vital Football

The Cowleys in talks with Sheffield Wednesday?

GreenNeedle said:
I doubt very much that "Mr Chairman" spoke to anyone at all. More likely whoever deals with things at Sheff Weds used an intermediary to sound out the Cowleys via another intermediary.

Yes it is tapping up but how on earth can you do anything about a friend of a friend of a friend of the club asking a friends of a friend of a friend of the Cowleys if "their opinion" on if the Cowleys would be interested?

If you don't want to be embarrassed asking a girl out you might ask first your mates if you think you have a chance and then ask her mates if they think she would be interested before then asking her if she fancied a night out down the Hop Pole.

Do you think the Cowleys/the Club put official bids in for players and magically they are all successful? There is "tapping up" everywhere. Nothing that can be done about it unless it is a blatant and with proof..........i.e. "photo of another club's head of football having dinner with Danny Cowley at the local Harvester."

Like the "genius" Klopp did with Van Dyk. Maybe Klopp is still learning but he won't get caught on camera again I'm sure.
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I'm not suggesting anything be done about it, just trying to work out how both sides can be telling the truth...
 
Sincilbanks said:
I'm not suggesting anything be done about it, just trying to work out how both sides can be telling the truth...
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It seems like 'tapping up' enquiries require a complaint to be made. I suggest LCFC and DC has an agreement that no complaint would be made if LCFC were kept in the loop. Again, it's the "official" wording that is the distinction.
 
Sincilbanks said:
I'm not suggesting anything be done about it, just trying to work out how both sides can be telling the truth...
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The word "OFFICIAL" keeps springing up all over the place. Chairman's mate asking Cowley's mate an off the cuff "hypothetical" question is not an "official approach."

And thus if Cowley's mate says "Hypothetically they might be interested, hypothetically what sort of role are you hypothetically talking about?" then that is not an official approach so Wednesday can say "we haven't made and official approach, Lincoln City can say " we have had no contact from Sheffield Wednesday" Neither are lying.

Danny can say "WE haven't had any contact from Wednesday" because they haven't. Their mate did and the Cowleys had contact from their mate who is not Sheffield Wednesday.

In their Huddersfield press conference Danny paused when asked a question on this obviously searching for the diplomatic phrasing to use before talking about "official" "the club."

No-one is lying. They are detailing the literal truth without filling in the gaps.

Or should Danny have told Rob Makepeace "we have had no official approach from Wednesday, but behind the scenes their people have made enquiries and contacted our people (off the record) and after hearing their offer our people told them that we were not interested in the position."

If you hear the "official" word being used then something has happened. Doesn't necessarily mean that something is going to lead to anything but they would have no need to use the "official" line otherwise. The club itself will always use the word "official" in these things because while they have to trust their staff they can't say for sure what has happened out of their loop.

I would suggest in the Cowleys case they probably kept the club in the loop anyway with the club well aware of any of these advances, well aware that the Cowleys would leave at some point and happy that many of these advances over the past year or more were dismissed. Quite likely the club itself is happy for that extra year they ended up with rather than some managers that might have jumped to Barnsley (or any other club ahead of where we were) a year+ ago.

Of course that is all supposition and we won't be party to what the club knew and didn't know but the Cowleys have always come across to me as honest and open. Never hid that they were ambitious and to me from those ambition statements they frequently gave it was pretty clear that they couldn't fulfill those ambitions here especially in terms of time-frame. These guys want to get to the top as quickly as possible. Very clever in terms of selecting that route. They didn't just take the first team that was a league above. They stayed with Lincoln until they saw an opportunity above us that had (in their eyes) the best chance of progressing another rung upward and another quickly.

So in Huddersfield they see they can not only immediately jump up a rung in the ladder, but with a club that has a realistic chance of progressing another rung due to the setup and finances available.

To get to where Huddersfield are would take us a minimum of 1 year (promotion this season) realistically though 2-3 seasons if ever. We would have next to no chance of promotion from the Championship to the Prem though IMO.

They immediately knock a minimum of 10 years off in terms of Lincoln competing on a stadium / attendance aspect.

They've been as honest as they can IMO in a sport where virtually everything is short term on the playing side. Sport is competitive. Top players and top managers don't stay at one place for "the project." They want to move up and prove themselves at a higher level. To do that with us would have meant 10-20 years of continual improvement. No room for any bad seasons. No room for any problems in terms of new stadium , new investment.

We will never know how much the club knew but I suspect they were with them all the way in return for the extra time that guaranteed.
 
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Official is basically just something in writing, I suspect.

I'm sure unofficial also covers Chairman/CEO talking to their counterparts, too.
 
GreenNeedle said:
The word "OFFICIAL" keeps springing up all over the place. Chairman's mate asking Cowley's mate an off the cuff "hypothetical" question is not an "official approach."

And thus if Cowley's mate says "Hypothetically they might be interested, hypothetically what sort of role are you hypothetically talking about?" then that is not an official approach so Wednesday can say "we haven't made and official approach, Lincoln City can say " we have had no contact from Sheffield Wednesday" Neither are lying.

Danny can say "WE haven't had any contact from Wednesday" because they haven't. Their mate did and the Cowleys had contact from their mate who is not Sheffield Wednesday.

In their Huddersfield press conference Danny paused when asked a question on this obviously searching for the diplomatic phrasing to use before talking about "official" "the club."

No-one is lying. They are detailing the literal truth without filling in the gaps.

Or should Danny have told Rob Makepeace "we have had no official approach from Wednesday, but behind the scenes their people have made enquiries and contacted our people (off the record) and after hearing their offer our people told them that we were not interested in the position."

If you hear the "official" word being used then something has happened. Doesn't necessarily mean that something is going to lead to anything but they would have no need to use the "official" line otherwise. The club itself will always use the word "official" in these things because while they have to trust their staff they can't say for sure what has happened out of their loop.

I would suggest in the Cowleys case they probably kept the club in the loop anyway with the club well aware of any of these advances, well aware that the Cowleys would leave at some point and happy that many of these advances over the past year or more were dismissed. Quite likely the club itself is happy for that extra year they ended up with rather than some managers that might have jumped to Barnsley (or any other club ahead of where we were) a year+ ago.

Of course that is all supposition and we won't be party to what the club knew and didn't know but the Cowleys have always come across to me as honest and open. Never hid that they were ambitious and to me from those ambition statements they frequently gave it was pretty clear that they couldn't fulfill those ambitions here especially in terms of time-frame. These guys want to get to the top as quickly as possible. Very clever in terms of selecting that route. They didn't just take the first team that was a league above. They stayed with Lincoln until they saw an opportunity above us that had (in their eyes) the best chance of progressing another rung upward and another quickly.

So in Huddersfield they see they can not only immediately jump up a rung in the ladder, but with a club that has a realistic chance of progressing another rung due to the setup and finances available.

To get to where Huddersfield are would take us a minimum of 1 year (promotion this season) realistically though 2-3 seasons if ever. We would have next to no chance of promotion from the Championship to the Prem though IMO.

They immediately knock a minimum of 10 years off in terms of Lincoln competing on a stadium / attendance aspect.

They've been as honest as they can IMO in a sport where virtually everything is short term on the playing side. Sport is competitive. Top players and top managers don't stay at one place for "the project." They want to move up and prove themselves at a higher level. To do that with us would have meant 10-20 years of continual improvement. No room for any bad seasons. No room for any problems in terms of new stadium , new investment.

We will never know how much the club knew but I suspect they were with them all the way in return for the extra time that guaranteed.
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And quite simply if Huddersfield get relegated then they and will play us next season.
 
GreenNeedle said:
...So in Huddersfield they see they can not only immediately jump up a rung in the ladder, but with a club that has a realistic chance of progressing another rung due to the setup and finances available....
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Yes, except there are clubs with much better prospects than Huddersfield. Sunderland are in that bracket despite being below us in the league currently.

When Wagner got Huddersfield promoted to the PL that was considered a miracle, so the miracle's already been performed. The best that can be done is to repeat it. Not getting Huddersfield back in the PL is not a great achievement by comparison, and it will still be difficult because it is... well.. Huddersfield.

I doubt anyone thought they were going to be at Sincil Bank much longer anyway but I certainly thought it would be till the end of the season unless a truly unmissable opportunity came along. Huddersfield is a good club, it's not an unmissable opportunity.

And if you want people to believe in your project, don't keep going on about the project then abandoning it just as you've started version 4.0. I wish they'd just said it's too much money to turn down, I could get behind that.

It's water under the bridge now and there's a chance for a quick reboot. Onwards and upwards I say.
 
GreenNeedle said:
I doubt very much that "Mr Chairman" spoke to anyone at all. More likely whoever deals with things at Sheff Weds used an intermediary to sound out the Cowleys via another intermediary.

Yes it is tapping up but how on earth can you do anything about a friend of a friend of a friend of the club asking a friend of a friend of a friend of the Cowleys if "their opinion" on if the Cowleys would be interested?

If you don't want to be embarrassed asking a girl out you might ask first your mates if you think you have a chance and then ask her mates if they think she would be interested before then asking her if she fancied a night out down the Hop Pole.

Do you think the Cowleys/the Club put official bids in for players and magically they are all successful? There is "tapping up" everywhere. Nothing that can be done about it unless it is a blatant and with proof..........i.e. "photo of another club's head of football having dinner with Danny Cowley at the local Harvester."

Like the "genius" Klopp did with Van Dyk. Maybe Klopp is still learning but he won't get caught on camera again I'm sure.
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Well they can't both be telling the truth then under that logic, can they?

"Cowley met Chansiri"
"I doubt very much that "Mr Chairman" spoke to anyone at all."
 
Brendan Bradley said:
Yes, except there are clubs with much better prospects than Huddersfield. Sunderland are in that bracket despite being below us in the league currently.

When Wagner got Huddersfield promoted to the PL that was considered a miracle, so the miracle's already been performed. The best that can be done is to repeat it. Not getting Huddersfield back in the PL is not a great achievement by comparison, and it will still be difficult because it is... well.. Huddersfield.

I doubt anyone thought they were going to be at Sincil Bank much longer anyway but I certainly thought it would be till the end of the season unless a truly unmissable opportunity came along. Huddersfield is a good club, it's not an unmissable opportunity.

And if you want people to believe in your project, don't keep going on about the project then abandoning it just as you've started version 4.0. I wish they'd just said it's too much money to turn down, I could get behind that.

It's water under the bridge now and there's a chance for a quick reboot. Onwards and upwards I say.
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A good friend of mine is a villa supporter, so a truly neutral observer. He was very perplexed they went to Huddersfield.
 
Sincilbanks said:
Well they can't both be telling the truth then under that logic, can they?

"Cowley met Chansiri"
"I doubt very much that "Mr Chairman" spoke to anyone at all."
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That quote is from the Stocksbridge manager that has nothing to do with either party nor any bigname press or TV detailing links to things. There are hundreds of wannabe ITKs on twitter as well as many that aren't ITK at all and just seeking a bit of attention.

We could go on about this forever though. It is what it is. Happens all the time. Will happen again. They are saying the same things at Hudds. Hudds fans falling in love with them. they will get burnt when they take these things too literally IF they are successful and move upward again.

Best to see them as what they are; a great management team, rather than as messiahs that have bought into Lincoln for life.

People talk about Eddie Howe in a revisionist romanticised way, altered into a "loyal to the core" narrative. The reality being he jumped to Burnley, had 2 seasons there, Bournemouth got half bought by moneybags and he cited "personal reasons" to go back to Bournemouth now they were in the money. Add to it he is from Bournemouth and had links there. Doesn't change that he jumped ship when they had nothing and Burnley were the "better" option, and he would probably have remained with Burnley had Bournemouth not come into money as they did. And if they hadn't after Burnley he would have gone somewhere else he thought was a better option.

Cowleys@Lincoln are much different to Eddie Howe as well. They aren't from Lincoln. No links to Lincoln before this job.
 
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GreenNeedle said:
That quote is from the Stocksbridge manager that has nothing to do with either party nor any bigname press or TV detailing links to things. There are hundreds of wannabe ITKs on twitter as well as many that aren't ITK at all and just seeking a bit of attention.

We could go on about this forever though. It is what it is. Happens all the time. Will happen again. They are saying the same things at Hudds. Hudds fans falling in love with them. they will get burnt when they take these things too literally IF they are successful and move upward again.

Best to see them as what they are; a great management team, rather than as messiahs that have bought into Lincoln for life.

People talk about Eddie Howe in a revisionist romanticised way, altered into a "loyal to the core" narrative. The reality being he jumped to Burnley, had 2 seasons there, Bournemouth got half bought by moneybags and he cited "personal reasons" to go back to Bournemouth now they were in the money. Add to it he is from Bournemouth and had links there. Doesn't change that he jumped ship when they had nothing and Burnley were the "better" option, and he would probably have remained with Burnley had Bournemouth not come into money as they did. And if they hadn't after Burnley he would have gone somewhere else he thought was a better option.

Cowleys@Lincoln are much different to Eddie Howe as well. They aren't from Lincoln. No links to Lincoln before this job.
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So this is crap as well?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-talks-with-danny-cowley-over-managerial-role

I mean Sheff Wed have either spoken to Lincoln City or they are "tapping him up" or it's bullshit right? Has to be one of those 3?

also, I'm not really interested in talking about "Best to see them as what they are; a great management team, rather than as messiahs that have bought into Lincoln for life." I really don't have an agenda one way or the other on that point of view...
 
Sincilbanks said:
So this is crap as well?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-talks-with-danny-cowley-over-managerial-role

I mean Sheff Wed have either spoken to Lincoln City or they are "tapping him up" or it's bullshit right? Has to be one of those 3?

also, I'm not really interested in talking about "Best to see them as what they are; a great management team, rather than as messiahs that have bought into Lincoln for life." I really don't have an agenda one way or the other on that point of view...
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I've already answered that. They have "tapped him up" but they haven't actually spoken to him directly. It is what it is. We do it, everyone else does it.
 
SIMJON said:
I guess the issue is 'bigger' clubs aren't willing to give them the control they want...and Huddersfield were.
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That's certainly part of it.

I suspect the smaller Championship Clubs were more likely to accommodate that first of all (as shown by Huddersfield) and if it works, then they can say to the bigger ones if they come calling that it's worked for them at that level they're at, so it's not as bigger risk as perhaps they would initially see it.
 
Luke Imp said:
That's certainly part of it.

I suspect the smaller Championship Clubs were more likely to accommodate that first of all (as shown by Huddersfield) and if it works, then they can say to the bigger ones if they come calling that it's worked for them at that level they're at, so it's not as bigger risk as perhaps they would initially see it.
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Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, Zidane and managers of that stature might get away with that. Others, no chance.

Even someone as notoriously singular as Bielsa has a DoF signing players at Leeds.
 
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