The Ashes. | Page 23 | Vital Football

The Ashes.

The fact that previous punishments have not deterred the cheats suggest to me that they needed to come down harder on the culprits.
 
TPL and paz,I'm quite sure that the players union will get involved and it's worth noting that they have only just finished having a hearty disagreement with the AC. The main problem in this case is that there are two different bodies involved in handing down penalties. The ICC who may well be too lenient and the Aussie board who have come down like a ton of bricks. On top of that we have a feeble Prime Minister here who has jumped on to the band wagon in the hope that it will garner him a few more votes. As a result there is possibly a lot more interest in this than is warranted. Over here every man and his dog seem to have an opinion and it feels like the outbreak of the next world war. An absolute mess.

There's no doubt that these players must suffer a penalty, and in my opinion this should be somewhere between that handed down by the ICC and that of the AC. They are both wrong. It's probably time that the ICC changed tack a bit and made the penalty more severe, but not chucking players out of the game. And I don't think our AC has any chance of carrying out the penalty it's trying to apply, too heavy handed by far.

With a bit of luck we might end up with something that's more acceptable to all concerned but it won't happen overnight and in any case as TPL says "it's all about opinions".

:14:

 
I really don't know what's wrong with the bans. As I've said before this was planned cheating. Many Asian cricketers have been banned for longer for bowling a no-ball on a particular ball in an over. Drug cheats should be banned for life, and the ICC should make it clear that that's what will happen to cheating cricketers too. If they knew where they stood they couldn't argue about it. Quite a masterstroke wheeling them all out on tv to breakdown in tears. They should have thought about that when they were planning the cheating. Still not convinced that none of the bowlers were involved either.
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/03/31/australias-david-warner-address-media-ball-tampering-scandal/

According to this the players won't even say who was involved and answer questions. Why do you need advice to answer questions, unless you have cheated before?
 
Lienking - 31/3/2018 21:33

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/03/31/australias-david-warner-address-media-ball-tampering-scandal/

According to this the players won't even say who was involved and answer questions. Why do you need advice to answer questions, unless you have cheated before?

I'll hazard a guess and say they've taken legal advice because they're going to argue their case. And they might have their union at the back of them too.
This is just an assumption on my part and I know nothing for sure but I think it's a definite possibility. I'll be surprised if it's otherwise.

 
Old Red Fart - 31/3/2018 12:27

Lienking - 31/3/2018 21:33

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/03/31/australias-david-warner-address-media-ball-tampering-scandal/

According to this the players won't even say who was involved and answer questions. Why do you need advice to answer questions, unless you have cheated before?

I'll hazard a guess and say they've taken legal advice because they're going to argue their case. And they might have their union at the back of them too.
This is just an assumption on my part and I know nothing for sure but I think it's a definite possibility. I'll be surprised if it's otherwise.

You are probably right, but why would anyone refuse to explain what happened unless things are actually worse than we think they are?
 
Lienking - 31/3/2018 11:28

I really don't know what's wrong with the bans. As I've said before this was planned cheating. Many Asian cricketers have been banned for longer for bowling a no-ball on a particular ball in an over. Drug cheats should be banned for life, and the ICC should make it clear that that's what will happen to cheating cricketers too. If they knew where they stood they couldn't argue about it. Quite a masterstroke wheeling them all out on tv to breakdown in tears. They should have thought about that when they were planning the cheating. Still not convinced that none of the bowlers were involved either.

I'm not sure you really grasp the sport of cricket.

The 'Asian' cricketers as you call them, (there are many others from different nations) were/are paid to bowl a specific ball, no ball, wide, whatever at a specific time in a game, by betting cartels for spot betting purposes. They were paid to do that effectively defrauding the betting market, for the benefit of the Cartels.
Ball tampering is an entirely different thing, like diving in a football matches......life bans for those too?

Nobody is denying they cheated, although whatever they did wasn't sufficient to warrant a ball change, clearly it wasn't very effective, and certainly didn't influence the game result.

I'm sure if they had known what would happen this week, then they may have thought twice. The fact is, in the many previous episodes like this, the punishement has been loss of match fee, and 3 demerit points, not an effective $1m fine and loss of profession for a year, in the case of Warner, probably the end of his career.
As I've pointed out DuPlessis gets caught twice, and is then promoted to Captain of SA. So given that these guys have received such a demonstrative punishment, and that CA have never seem to have issues with 'hard cricket' in the past, are you surprised they didn't know where they stood, and are now reluctant to discuss anything not passed by their legal teams.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the public humiliation of 3 people and their families, whatever turns you on.
 
I didn't enjoy their public humiliation, but why were they all wheeled out? This wasn't diving, or picking up a bit of soil, or rubbing the ball on a zip. This was pre-planned organised cheating. I remember sport from the days before the money ruined it . You are entitled to your opinion, but it is no more valid than mine. I don't gloat on what has happened, but these people are being paid millions. They should be setting society an example. Sportsmanship should be brought back into sport. Players seem to be beyond doing this themselves, so as I have said before teams should be docked points for cheating.
 
If the punishment had been left to the ICC there'd be no argument except that maybe some would say that it should have been harder and possibly they would be right. But then the AC poked its two pennoth in trying to make up for a very poor performance over the last few years and we get this quite nasty situation.
I still think that Warner was likely to be affected by the rotten abuse suffered by his wife and that his thinking may well have been out of whack,

I know how I would have felt in those circumstances. This doesn't come anywhere near the normal sledging carried on by some players and don't forget that this was condoned by some of the SA officials. Totally inexcusable. I'm not trying to excuse any of the three, they should be able to set some sort of example especially considering the sort of money that they're on and the sponsors that they represent.

This business is far from over in my opinion and nobody comes out of it with any credit and that includes the ICC and AC. The ICC not heavy enough and the AC needing complete overhaul from top to bottom.

In the meantime TV and the papers have a field day, what a rotten situation.




 
Lienking - 31/3/2018 18:29

I didn't enjoy their public humiliation, but why were they all wheeled out? This wasn't diving, or picking up a bit of soil, or rubbing the ball on a zip. This was pre-planned organised cheating. I remember sport from the days before the money ruined it . You are entitled to your opinion, but it is no more valid than mine. I don't gloat on what has happened, but these people are being paid millions. They should be setting society an example. Sportsmanship should be brought back into sport. Players seem to be beyond doing this themselves, so as I have said before teams should be docked points for cheating.

And that's the point, it doesn't matter how you do it, the team is tying to change the ball to a condition that suits the bowlers and the conditions they are facing. It's a pre-planned team effort, always has been and always will be, whether it's a zip, soil, sweet or sandpaper.
To believe these guys plotted outside of the rest of the team, that it hadn't happened before, and that the whole playing side administration wasn't aware is frankly ridiculous. These guys should have faced no bigger sanction than those caught previously.

I also remember sport before the 'money', it was just as unscrupulous then. Our football club employed a very successful manager who was an expert at manipulating the situation to his clubs needs, ask Juventus.......
I agree that money has made a difference, but I don't believe it's as big, or bad as is made out. Social media has, in my opinion, made a far bigger and more negative impression on sport. Again the events of the last week.

I played cricket at a good level, and like many others, I maybe had the ability, but not the attitude to take it further. The guys at the very top don't care about money, it's about winning, that's what drives them, at the very top it's obsessive.
The difference between 'them' and us is enormous, and I don't believe you can fully appreciate it if you haven't been involved first hand, it's actually a very sobering experience when you realize what is needed to be a top sportsman.

Nothing that has happened this week will change the attitudes of professional cricketers to winning, they will just try and do it better.
Meanwhile 3 players have been hung out to dry by their own administration, whilst many others who have committed the same offense continue on with their careers unaffected. That's is not right.
 
It looks as though all 3 of them have accepted their punishment and according to sources here have also been offered terms to play in England. Who'd have thought.

If it changes the lousy sledging we have to put up with these days perhaps it might have been worth it. I hope so and feel sure it's put a boundary on messing with the ball. We all live in hope.
 
It looks as though all 3 of them have accepted their punishment and according to sources here have also been offered terms to play in England. Who'd have thought.

If it changes the lousy sledging we have to put up with these days perhaps it might have been worth it. I hope so and feel sure it's put a boundary on messing with the ball. We all live in hope.

What do you mean when you say they have been offered terms to play in England? Surely they can't play anywhere for 12 months can they ? Bancroft was already contracted to Somerset, but can't play for them now. Hales of Notts is also replacing Warner in the IPL.
 
What do you mean when you say they have been offered terms to play in England? Surely they can't play anywhere for 12 months can they ? Bancroft was already contracted to Somerset, but can't play for them now. Hales of Notts is also replacing Warner in the IPL.

As quoted in our papers, don't know any more than that. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Probably turn out to be a load of crap. Nothing new there either.
Not sure that we've seen the end of this business.
 
I've been reading in the last few days of the comments of one of the umpires in the Oz v S.A. games just finished and which resulted in the three Oz players being outed for lengthy spells. The umpire in question was Crowe, the old N.Z. player who has been umpiring for a few years now and who has an excellent reputation as a player and an umpire.

He said that the sledging in that series was the worst he'd ever experienced. Maybe the Ashes didn't do too badly after all.

On a personal level I'd be glad to see the back of it for ever.
 
According to our papers Surrey are in the frame for trying to get some of the suspended players signed up while they're under suspension over here.

Doesn't make any sense to me either.
 
Interestingly that Michael Holding was commenting on the England v India Test yesterday and the subject of cricket balls and sand paper came up.
In his opinion, the sandpaper makes no difference to the ball in relation to reverse swing.
That is achieved by getting moisture into one side of the ball. Obviously the sandpaper may speed up the process, but only if you can get the moisture in when the ball surface is scratched.

I guess he would know something on the subject