The Ashes. | Page 22 | Vital Football

The Ashes.

ThePromisedLand - 28/3/2018 15:29

Drastic?
Warner & Smith should’ve been banned sine die - absolutely no excuse whatsoever.
Bancroft I have some sympathy for - he was clearly working to the instructions of his skipper & vice captain.
No place for this in the game. Any suggestion that this has been happening for years is no excuse.
No Smith or Warner in the IPL or in England this year - they will not be missed!

Why the sympathy for Bancroft but not the others? He's 25 year old, surely mature enough to know what he was doing. They were (and probably others) all in it together, they should all have had the same punishment.

Of course if any of them had been South African, they would probably have been promoted to Captian, just like DuPlessis. The action by CA has been total disproportionate to the events.

I do agree there is no excuse for cheating, but whilst ever sport exists, participants will challange the rules to try and win. I know I did, and whilst playing cricket too.

Ball tampering will happen again in Test Cricket, and probably in the next round of matches.
Just like footballers over the weekend will be rolling around as if shot over the slightest touch just to con the match officials.
Cheating, gamesmanship whatever you want to call it happens, its the nature of the beast, particularly in professional sport.
 
Players may regularly break the rules - but they can have no complaint if caught & punished. In this case it was premeditated by the senior players within the team - deserve everything that they’ve been given.
 
ThePromisedLand - 29/3/2018 08:19

Players may regularly break the rules - but they can have no complaint if caught & punished. In this case it was premeditated by the senior players within the team - deserve everything that they’ve been given.

It's fair to say that when a player breaks the rules and gets caught then he will suffer some sort of punishment. That's fair enough. The problem in this case, or one of them, is making the punishment fit the crime, and in this case there's some doubt. Feco has already pointed out that DuPlessis has been caught twice for the same crime and here he is Captain of S.A. Also this sort of crime has been going on since day 1 and I can't recall this sort of punishment being handed out before. Might be wrong here but doubt it.

I've just this minute watched Bancroft apologising on TV from Perth and he does come over as being genuinely remorseful,accepting that he's done the wrong thing and not blaming anyone else. He's learned a hard lesson and I think that's punishment enough in his case.
Smith is due on TV at some time to come and regardless of what he has to say I think he may well have not been strong enough to stand up to Warner, who is very much a tough nut.
Warners thinking may possibly have been affected by the extremely unpleasant sledging of his wife during the game. The SA players are beauties at this and well known for it. This is not an excuse, he is a very volotile sort of character and maybe this affected his thinking. In any case he was the instigator. Will probably know more if he appears on our TV some time shortly.

There is some fallout from this regarding sponsorship,not just the players involved but Cricket Australia as well and it's already underway.

Feco, I understand that 3 players are already in process of being flown out as substitutes for the proper job. And then on the pitch tomorrow. Glad it's not me ! Just learned too that in the last 5 years playing for Oz that Smith and Warner between them accounted for 35% of our total runs. Don't like the odds for this last game. There's also some concern and it's genuine, for the mental health of all 3, particularly Smith, his whole life has resolved around Cricket.

What a shambles.







 
Just watched Smith on our TV, he was in tears and at one stage broke down. He couldn't have been more remorseful.

He's paying the price for a lousy decision and in my opinion has learned everything that he needs to.

I hope he comes back and plays for Australia again.

 
ORF, I hope they all come back and play International Cricket again, I love top quality cricket, whatever the team, and these guys are top quality.

I have no issue in some punishment being handed out, and felt the ICC just about got it right. A loss of match fee, and a one Test ban for all three would have been sufficient, remember the umpires didn't feel the actions of Bancroft on the ball was sufficient that a ball change and 5 run penalty should be awarded, he obviously didn't do much 'work' on the ball.

Given everything that's happened this week, I'm really not sure how I would react if I was one of the Australian quicks having to bowl at DuPlessis, DeKock and Rabada this weekend, but I reckon bodyline may come close. Obvioulsy that's legal!!

I guess that the humiliation of these three is nearly complete, I hope CA is happy now, they have their scapegoats.
They may also have just killed off one of the key ingredients of Australian cricket, in the hope of gaining 'respect'.
Australian cricket is not meant to be liked, just be winners, you get respect, even begrudgingly, that way too!!


 
Well Warner will never don the baggy green again - and he won’t be missed.
I’m not buying the tears - they committed the crime & must accept the punishment.
As I’ve said previously I do have some sympathy for Bancroft who appears to have been put in an untenable position by more senior players.

Oh and I’ve just seen Lehman shedding crocodile tears - you really couldn’t make this up.

Looking forward to the ODI at Trent Bridge already. Pavilion tickets arrived a few days ago - we might see a decent X1 turn up who will play the game as it should be.

And don’t tell me that the Aussies are slow at coming forward when it comes to sledging - they built something out of nothing when targeting Bairstow earlier this Winter. They are every bit as aggressive in that department as the South Africans.

Will just sit back & await the next revelations - this ain’t over yet.
 
TPL,you really have got it in for the Aussies. Your "crocodile tears"comment about Lehman goes down badly in my view, the bloke has been a dyed in the wool cricket man all his life and has a "straight up" reputation over here.
As for your comment about Bairstow being a target, you might be right but remember that he's also got a reputation for sledging on a par with our lot. And I'm not excusing the aggressive Oz on field sledging either, it's on a par with S.A., India, Sri Lhanka and others. And if you watched the last Ashes over here in some detail, as I did, you would have noticed that the English quicks had a fair bit to say as well. And others in the same team.

The penalties handed down to Smith, Bancroft, and Warner might be considered excessive when compared to many others. This is the real question.

If you can think of a way to outlaw sledging I'll be the first to congratulate you.






:14:
 
ThePromisedLand - 29/3/2018 16:46

Well Warner will never don the baggy green again - and he won’t be missed.
I’m not buying the tears - they committed the crime & must accept the punishment.
As I’ve said previously I do have some sympathy for Bancroft who appears to have been put in an untenable position by more senior players.

Oh and I’ve just seen Lehman shedding crocodile tears - you really couldn’t make this up.

Looking forward to the ODI at Trent Bridge already. Pavilion tickets arrived a few days ago - we might see a decent X1 turn up who will play the game as it should be.

And don’t tell me that the Aussies are slow at coming forward when it comes to sledging - they built something out of nothing when targeting Bairstow earlier this Winter. They are every bit as aggressive in that department as the South Africans.

Will just sit back & await the next revelations - this ain’t over yet.

I respect your views even if I think they are wrong on the length of the ban, no arguing that they were all caught cheating.

What's your thoughts on DuPlessis Captaining in SA this morning?
 
Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.



 
TPL, my memory banks are starting to work and in particular reminding me that in 1994, I think, Mike Atherton got caught rubbing dirt from his pocket on the ball. This was in a game with S.A. His penalty at the time was a fine of approx A$3700 or something like that. And I think that was the end of it although not quite certain.
My opinion of him at the time was complementary and I didn't feel like changing it. He seemed to have learned from that and continued to play good cricket. (To the best of my knowledge).

The point I make is that all of a sudden the rules seem to have changed and we find that a couple of our younger players having made the same or similar mistake may find it hard or even impossible to get back into the game at a decent level. I don't include Warner in this because I just don't know but I wouldn't mind betting that his mind may have been affected by the vile sledging relating to his wifes pre marital life.

If the same treatment was applied to all players I wouldn't feel so bad but this is not the case.

 
Lienking - 30/3/2018 08:51

Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.

Lehman did, quite rightly, call Broad a cheat, he did. The abuse call was bang out or order, but unfortunately such behavior seems to be the norm at all major sporting events these days.....must have needle first. I guess that's the penalty for PPV.

DuPlessis would not have messed with the ball of his own free will, the bowler would have had input, remember it's him who has to use it......it would be a team decision no question.

No argument they cheated, so have many others, it's just that the punishments this time are extraordinary and unprecedented. And totally disproportionate to what's happened.
 
Lienking - 30/3/2018 18:51

Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.

Lienking, Lehmann and Lyon are like the rest of us, just expressing a view point, and it doesn't mean a thing. Even though I agreed with Lehmann. It'still just an opinion.
As for our lot, it wasn't team level at all. It was Warner coming up with the idea and asking Bancroft to have a go and then Smith agreeing to it. Bad enough all right but not team level, in fact the rest of the side are said to be livid when they found out.

Warner's a different kettle of fish, known as a bit of a firebrand and perhaps too quick off the mark but if you want to write your book doubt whether you'll find anything much against the rules of the game. According to TV tonight he's going to go public in the morning (our time) so we might find out a bit more. Might be interesting.
I watched TV tonight as he and his wife and two very young girls came through the airport and in spite of the situation my heart bled for them.

Unfortunately for him his reputation will preceed him and he might well have a problem getting back into the game.

 
Feco - 30/3/2018 09:09

Lienking - 30/3/2018 08:51

Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.

Lehman did, quite rightly, call Broad a cheat, he did. The abuse call was bang out or order, but unfortunately such behavior seems to be the norm at all major sporting events these days.....must have needle first. I guess that's the penalty for PPV.

DuPlessis would not have messed with the ball of his own free will, the bowler would have had input, remember it's him who has to use it......it would be a team decision no question.

No argument they cheated, so have many others, it's just that the punishments this time are extraordinary and unprecedented. And totally disproportionate to what's happened.

DuPlessis wouldn't have done anything without a bowlers input? Aren't Warner, Smith and Bancroft all batsmen? Our press are saying that the bowlers would be able to see the ball had been messed about with at the very least. Were no Aussie bowlers part of this "team group" that Smith was on about?
 
Lienking - 30/3/2018 10:15

Feco - 30/3/2018 09:09

Lienking - 30/3/2018 08:51

Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.

Lehman did, quite rightly, call Broad a cheat, he did. The abuse call was bang out or order, but unfortunately such behavior seems to be the norm at all major sporting events these days.....must have needle first. I guess that's the penalty for PPV.

DuPlessis would not have messed with the ball of his own free will, the bowler would have had input, remember it's him who has to use it......it would be a team decision no question.

No argument they cheated, so have many others, it's just that the punishments this time are extraordinary and unprecedented. And totally disproportionate to what's happened.

DuPlessis wouldn't have done anything without a bowlers input? Aren't Warner, Smith and Bancroft all batsmen? Our press are saying that the bowlers would be able to see the ball had been messed about with at the very least. Were no Aussie bowlers part of this "team group" that Smith was on about?

I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I can assure you that any 'work' done in the ball has input from the bowler.

The ball was so 'messed about' that the umpires on the day didn't find any reason to change it. Something 'our' press seem to have ignored. Then again our press do seem to miss facts that don't fit with their agendas.
 
Lienking - 30/3/2018 10:15

Feco - 30/3/2018 09:09

Lienking - 30/3/2018 08:51

Lehmann called Broad a cheat and called on the whole of Australia to abuse him. Nathan Lyons wanted Australia to end careers. I don't condone anything DuPlessis has done, but as far as we know that wasn't team level organised cheating. This was team level organised cheating with sandpaper from what we know. As for Warner , you could write a book about what he has done.

Lehman did, quite rightly, call Broad a cheat, he did. The abuse call was bang out or order, but unfortunately such behavior seems to be the norm at all major sporting events these days.....must have needle first. I guess that's the penalty for PPV.

DuPlessis would not have messed with the ball of his own free will, the bowler would have had input, remember it's him who has to use it......it would be a team decision no question.

No argument they cheated, so have many others, it's just that the punishments this time are extraordinary and unprecedented. And totally disproportionate to what's happened.

DuPlessis wouldn't have done anything without a bowlers input? Aren't Warner, Smith and Bancroft all batsmen? Our press are saying that the bowlers would be able to see the ball had been messed about with at the very least. Were no Aussie bowlers part of this "team group" that Smith was on about?

DP
 
Of course this isn’t the first time that a professional cricketer has done anything untoward on a cricket field ( inc DuPlessis ).
But it is just about the first time that the penalty has fitted the crime.
Let’s stop trying to feel sorry for the cheating Aussie bastards!

Anyway I’m moving on from this - until or unless we learn of yet more misdemeanours ( and I ain’t holding my breath )...

Ps ORF Warner deserves anything coming to him. Don’t give me any crap about the poor sod suffering at the hands of the Springboks after the shit that he’s dished out!
 
ThePromisedLand - 30/3/2018 12:01

Of course this isn’t the first time that a professional cricketer has done anything untoward on a cricket field ( inc DuPlessis ).
But it is just about the first time that the penalty has fitted the crime.
Let’s stop trying to feel sorry for the cheating Aussie bastards!

Anyway I’m moving on from this - until or unless we learn of yet more misdemeanours ( and I ain’t holding my breath )...

Ps ORF Warner deserves anything coming to him. Don’t give me any crap about the poor sod suffering at the hands of the Springboks after the shit that he’s dished out!

Crime? Wow, that's a bit Daily Mail. They cheated at sport, it's not a murder.

Still not sure what you view is on DuPlessis, do you think he should be playing or not?

I don't feel sorry for anyone caught cheating, you get caught you face the consequences.
I do feel annoyed when double standards on the punishment are applied. It should have been left to the ICC to deal with it, so at least there is some commonality in proceedings across the international game, particularly as AC at the very least, has had a dubious recent record on the administration of the game in Australia.
For that reason I'm sure you will hear more about this over the next week, particularly if the Player Union do get involved. This will likely end with who can afford the best lawyers.

Anyway, enjoy your day in the sun at Trent Bridge.
 
ThePromisedLand - 30/3/2018 22:01

Of course this isn’t the first time that a professional cricketer has done anything untoward on a cricket field ( inc DuPlessis ).
But it is just about the first time that the penalty has fitted the crime.
Let’s stop trying to feel sorry for the cheating Aussie bastards!

Anyway I’m moving on from this - until or unless we learn of yet more misdemeanours ( and I ain’t holding my breath )...

Ps ORF Warner deserves anything coming to him. Don’t give me any crap about the poor sod suffering at the hands of the Springboks after the shit that he’s dished out!

Take it easy TPL, you'll give yourself a heart attack. Cheating Aussie bastards indeed. And I thought I was trying to explain things in a gentle manner. Must have had the wrong end of the stick. Did you have the same sort of grievance when Atherton was caught out or when Broad took advantage of a faulty call ? I doubt it.
And regarding the Ashes your lot behaved in the same manner as the Aussies, not that it helped them. They were well beaten. I hope this isn't affecting your judgement in any way. But am beginning to doubt it.

And regarding Warner, the only s..t that he's been caught dishing out is in this game, and that's official. And it's happened many times before but not with the same punishment. I thought that that was the main point of debate.

To me your view point sounds a bit savage.

 
I believe that this business is far from over, once the players union gets involved I reckon we're going to see fireworks, and rightly so in my opinion. General opinion here varies a bit but in general the view seems to be that the AC came down like a ton of bricks too quickly.

There'll be a ton of interest world wide in the next few days.
 
No coronary here ORF but thanks for asking.
Just putting forward a view - all about opinions.
I too believe that the players union will get involved but ( again only my view ) they should advise the players to accept the penalties given...