The 5 stages of loss and grief

Or, in short, we want to spread the word of God, and alcoholics are an easy target. We don't care if we hurt everyone else on the way.

You accused me of playing God, but have you ever analysed the results of your fellowship? Have you ever followed up on those many, many people you couldn't help?

They don't want you to know the truth, but I think you ought to look for yourself.
 
The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous


1/ Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

2/ For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

3/ The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.

4 Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

5/Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

6/ An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

7/Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

8/Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

9/A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

10/Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

11/Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.

12/Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
 
LOL. Great discussion!!!!

If you don't want me to question it, don't bring it up. It's very simple. Or is that the idea? AA gets a free pass, and we aren't allowed to look at it in any great detail? Religion did that for Centuries, so maybe that is the idea.

Anyone with alcohol problems, or anyone who has been to AA and not had good results, go and see your Doctor. There are therapies now that are streets ahead in terms of success rates, and they can help you. Don't listen to this propaganda. Get some real help.
 
The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous


1/ Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

2/ For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

3/ The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.

4 Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

5/Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

6/ An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

7/Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

8/Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

9/A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

10/Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

11/Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.

12/Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-rehab-work/

How well does traditional rehab work?

I don't believe that traditional rehabilitation using self-help methods is effective. In fact, the data suggest that they're not much better than spontaneous rates of recovery. For alcoholism, up to a quarter of people respond on their own, and a lot of recovery centers have rates that are not even that high. So-called rehabilitation centers should publish their rates of improvement, and they should be required by law to do so. Cancer centers do. But rehabs are just this black box.


 
GT dude winding up KK when debating something that means a lot to her life is a bit daft tbh, let's respect one another ay.

As for this AA, i think anything that helps people in anyway is better than nothing, i have seen first hand just how difficult it is for these rehabilitation type places and professions struggle to battle to help my cousen Mickey, he hit hard drugs getting into gangs etc from the age of 14 and only now he is the same age as me 34 he has got back on his feet and a life, the thing is we all am different and will respond to help only when ready i feel, at some point in life we all need help, anything that helps anybody is surely better than nothing?
 
Sorry Clive, but I don't agree. People trying to help can make things worse. The evidence is clear. They help a few, but there are many lives ruined by the intolerance of the program. They tell you it's your fault. That there is something wrong with you, if you don't follow every step of the program.

How can one size fit all? It can't.

24.4% of alcoholics get right on their own. Less than 10% get right with the 12 steps. It's appallingly bad.
 
ClivetheVillan - 4/11/2014 00:31

, at some point in life we all need help, anything that helps anybody is surely better than nothing?
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Yeah, trouble is it is heroin that helps me :3:
 
Not been on this thread since page 1, but thought I'd better come on today after a dramatic turn of events in the Deanovilla household last night....................

I lost my mobile phone!!!! :10:

I definitely experienced Stage 1 - Panic.

Stage 2 and 3 kind of merged into each other, anger/blame... lets call it blanger.

Stage 4 - I will call Embarrasment, as I found it where I had left it on the bed.

So I can confirm, just 4 stages, and even 2 of those were merged into blanger.

 
DeanoVilla - 4/11/2014 11:22

Not been on this thread since page 1, but thought I'd better come on today after a dramatic turn of events in the Deanovilla household last night....................

I lost my mobile phone!!!! :10:

I definitely experienced Stage 1 - Panic.

Stage 2 and 3 kind of merged into each other, anger/blame... lets call it blanger.

Stage 4 - I will call Embarrasment, as I found it where I had left it on the bed.

So I can confirm, just 4 stages, and even 2 of those were merged into blanger.
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Surely Stage 1 should have been "I'll try calling it"?
 
Does anyone know what the 12 steps are for AA members? I've never seen that list.
 
1. Turn off engine
2. Put Hazard Lights on
3. Stand away from vehicle
4. Phone AA
5. nah sorry I'm stuck.
 
The Fear - 4/11/2014 13:24

Does anyone know what the 12 steps are for AA members? I've never seen that list.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the posts I think you are referring to are not the 12 steps. They are the manifesto, if you like, of AA. I like the way they say the organisation is more important than any one person. Bully for them. Also, they should be non-professional and therefore should not make a profit. Tell that to all the rehab centres in the States making millions off it.

No, the actual 12 steps have a lot of stuff about a higher power, and that you are on your own if you don't believe in this. All very helpful stuff!!!!!
 
The Fear - 4/11/2014 13:24

Does anyone know what the 12 steps are for AA members? I've never seen that list.
Click to expand...

The rude version of them is a few pages back. You want the proper 1's rather than the Traditions, I posted, you can Google them :5:

However if you really want me to post the correct 1's I suppose I will have to obey else I will be on the naughty step again :14:

The Traditions (the short base of them) are how our fellowship works. The Steps are what we take to recover :18:
 
DeanoVilla - 4/11/2014 13:44

1. Turn off engine
2. Put Hazard Lights on
3. Stand away from vehicle
4. Phone AA
5. nah sorry I'm stuck.
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To help out here, Deano

6/ Stay stuck or change. Change what?
7 The oil if you wish. When you have had enough pain you will
8/ Become willing to make amends to the car and look after her, so she don't break down and have a nasty man come out to her
9/ Just do it :17:
10 Apologise to your car and be good to her daily, else she would give you grief
11/ Meditate over the said car
12/ Tell people how to look after their cars :14:

Think that sorts the whole problem :2: :3: :7: oh and don't drink and drive :15: else you will back at step 1 with no car
 
kefkat - 4/11/2014 14:58

DeanoVilla - 4/11/2014 13:44



Think that sorts the whole problem :2: :3: :7: oh and don't drink and drive :15: else you will back at step 1 with no car
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Was working with a lad a few years back who had lost his licence for drink driving and someone had said what you going to do with your car now his reply was keep it,it drives just aswell without a licence.Not very PC I know but it made me laugh.
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I thought the 'AA' final stage of grief was ''he's a very very nice man'' :134:
 
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