Terror Attacks | Page 46 | Vital Football

Terror Attacks

To be fair Seanie, Tipton could do with being blown up.

Without anyone there of course , just for clarity.
In the interest of balance I have to say I worked in The Black Country for two years and the infamous Lost City estate formed a part of my remit. Being a Brummie never went down well from the off, but the folks on that estate were brilliant, called a spade a spade and let you know if they didn't like you. Never had a moments trouble, good people.
 
Sorry, thought this was WW3 thread.

To get back on track given some comments, how many legally defined non illegal immigrants (according to Suella Braverman who still doesn't understand the law) commit crimes in the country and abroad.

Or at flash points are we going to continue to obsess over the 0.02 (and 99% of that is what 'might happen' through fear) and keep lazily generalising about the remaining 99.98, when their crimes make up less than 5% at best across Europe.

I always thought we were better than some of these comments.

The Tories and their supporting media have done a better job than I thought, if we aren't hating people based on baseless thoughts we clearly aren't living our lives right.

Oh by the way, anyone want to mention the 6 year old murdered randomly in the US whilst we shit ourselves - the murderer wasn't an immigrant and he was white.

Sweden had to call in the army recently to help with the surge of gang killings going on, with poor integration of immigrants being one of the factors. There has been problems in Sweden for years now which people had their heads in the sand about.

Mass immigration into countries in such a short period of time is not working, how on earth could it? So why shouldn't people have reservations about what European countries could look like 10 years from now if this goes on? Especially if fuck knows how many million are going to be coming from Palestine soon?

Nobody is shitting themselves mate, and I already touched on this, just the slightest mention of this topic and people get their knickers in a twist and start implying things about people. It's fucking bizarre.

And as for the 6 year old, yeah that was terrible, but isn't that the "whataboutery" that's so frowned upon here?
 
Sweden had to call in the army recently to help with the surge of gang killings going on, with poor integration of immigrants being one of the factors. There has been problems in Sweden for years now which people had their heads in the sand about.

Mass immigration into countries in such a short period of time is not working, how on earth could it? So why shouldn't people have reservations about what European countries could look like 10 years from now if this goes on? Especially if fuck knows how many million are going to be coming from Palestine soon?

Nobody is shitting themselves mate, and I already touched on this, just the slightest mention of this topic and people get their knickers in a twist and start implying things about people. It's fucking bizarre.

And as for the 6 year old, yeah that was terrible, but isn't that the "whataboutery" that's so frowned upon here?
Sweden was held up as a model democracy, and now due to mass immigration it's always referred to when people want to demonstrate what is wrong with uncontrolled immigration. Neighbours Denmark are just about to start a scheme whereby whole areas are to have Muslim immigrants removed from estates to other parts of the country because they have become ghettos and nobody else wants to live there. You can't force people to integrate. You only have to look at some of our northern towns where there is a literal divide down the centre of postcodes because the immigrants want to live amongst the other like immigrants and the people who aren't immigrants don't want to live amongst them. There is no integration, multi culturalism is a failed experiment, people didn't want it but we're never given a choice.
 
Sweden had to call in the army recently to help with the surge of gang killings going on, with poor integration of immigrants being one of the factors. There has been problems in Sweden for years now which people had their heads in the sand about.

Mass immigration into countries in such a short period of time is not working, how on earth could it? So why shouldn't people have reservations about what European countries could look like 10 years from now if this goes on? Especially if fuck knows how many million are going to be coming from Palestine soon?

Nobody is shitting themselves mate, and I already touched on this, just the slightest mention of this topic and people get their knickers in a twist and start implying things about people. It's fucking bizarre.

And as for the 6 year old, yeah that was terrible, but isn't that the "whataboutery" that's so frowned upon here?

Yup it's a growing problem across Europe, few would deny it but it's largely on the Government's at hand and how they handle, and balance things, my point is there's no reason for grand sweeping generalisations that often innocently happen when people are rushing or not thinking. For all the numbers that have come in through immigration, the true reality is it's an absolutely minority who are bad eggs - but they get all the press and PR and the fear gets whipped up, and people go off the deep end through anger, but it's rarely targeted where it should be.

We're a pretty balanced lot in the main on here, very little is off limits for a debate when handled correctly, but the cold read of this thread was worrying - not helped once I realised it wasn't the WW thread which contains most of the context, but that context was lacking in here, and we have to be mindful of people who don't know us, know the other chats with context and so on, when we all slip into being too general at points.

Partly, but I was more amazed at how little coverage that story got, compared to other stories that were peaceful protests - it's the balance again, and then I'm reading posts effectively warning about the country being invaded again by a certain type of person etc etc.

Very little difference to the 'the whole of Turkey could move here' codswallop that went round during and prior to Brexit.

Keeping a balance doesn't silence people, having one eye on what could be read completely differently from how it was intended doesn't stop anyone making their point either. Knowing which thread you are in when going general, that doesn't have the prior context already in, just be mindful of it.

We all fuck up at points, as said I thought this was the WW thread to begin with, it just takes a bit of thought.

I won't speak for the experiences others, but there is so much I don't recognise when it comes to the various claims being thrown around and again as people know, I'm an old Washwood Heath, Alum Rock, Ward End lad, but that's the power of the press irrespective of any personal bad experiences.
 
Sweden was held up as a model democracy, and now due to mass immigration it's always referred to when people want to demonstrate what is wrong with uncontrolled immigration. Neighbours Denmark are just about to start a scheme whereby whole areas are to have Muslim immigrants removed from estates to other parts of the country because they have become ghettos and nobody else wants to live there. You can't force people to integrate. You only have to look at some of our northern towns where there is a literal divide down the centre of postcodes because the immigrants want to live amongst the other like immigrants and the people who aren't immigrants don't want to live amongst them. There is no integration, multi culturalism is a failed experiment, people didn't want it but we're never given a choice.
I don't think it's a case that multi culturalism has failed, its more a case that government hasn't invested in inner cities. Birmingham an example I know. They are spending fortunes on developing Paradise circus, Broad street etc( which is all good, and long overdue) but the areas around central Birmingham....thinking Alum Rock, Lozells, Small Heath, Nechells have been massively neglected. Creating these shit holes. Yes, they are mainly multi cultural areas, but they have little funding to make it a nice place to live. It creates this ghetto that no one wants to move to. I really have to question where the fuck my tax I pay goes to. We need to invest more in local communities, to make people want to integrate. Immigrants can be a valuable contribution to our society, and most are.
Let's not go down the Enoch Powell route yet. Have a look at where our government spunks and wastes money first.
 
If multiculturalism has failed then heaven help us all. Sure section everywhere up and have X faith living here + X faith living there it might seem ideal - but that way lies amergeddon.

Quite simply we are all human beings and need to accept each others differences as best we can - it won't ever be perfect - but division will only cause conflict in the long run.
 
I don't think it's a case that multi culturalism has failed, its more a case that government hasn't invested in inner cities. Birmingham an example I know. They are spending fortunes on developing Paradise circus, Broad street etc( which is all good, and long overdue) but the areas around central Birmingham....thinking Alum Rock, Lozells, Small Heath, Nechells have been massively neglected. Creating these shit holes. Yes, they are mainly multi cultural areas, but they have little funding to make it a nice place to live. It creates this ghetto that no one wants to move to. I really have to question where the fuck my tax I pay goes to. We need to invest more in local communities, to make people want to integrate. Immigrants can be a valuable contribution to our society, and most are.
Let's not go down the Enoch Powell route yet. Have a look at where our government spunks and wastes money first.

Enoch Powell was always an extremist and fringe polictan. Braverman and Badenoch are within touching distance of being PM - a chilling thought to be honest.
 
I don't think it's a case that multi culturalism has failed, its more a case that government hasn't invested in inner cities. Birmingham an example I know. They are spending fortunes on developing Paradise circus, Broad street etc( which is all good, and long overdue) but the areas around central Birmingham....thinking Alum Rock, Lozells, Small Heath, Nechells have been massively neglected. Creating these shit holes. Yes, they are mainly multi cultural areas, but they have little funding to make it a nice place to live. It creates this ghetto that no one wants to move to. I really have to question where the fuck my tax I pay goes to. We need to invest more in local communities, to make people want to integrate. Immigrants can be a valuable contribution to our society, and most are.
Let's not go down the Enoch Powell route yet. Have a look at where our government spunks and wastes money first.
I would clarify my comment a bit, and hope it doesn't offend, but I believe it to be true. I was bought up in Witton,Handsworth Aston areas of Brum and I agree with a lot of your post. I had Irish mates, I had black mates, and in later life great Indian neighbours. The group that always stood apart were the Pakistani Muslims. They seemed to have an aversion to anyone other than their own religious group, and it's this that creates the divides. It's been my personal experience they just don't want to mix. This causes a lot of the division we see in our towns and cities.
 
Sweden was held up as a model democracy, and now due to mass immigration it's always referred to when people want to demonstrate what is wrong with uncontrolled immigration. Neighbours Denmark are just about to start a scheme whereby whole areas are to have Muslim immigrants removed from estates to other parts of the country because they have become ghettos and nobody else wants to live there. You can't force people to integrate. You only have to look at some of our northern towns where there is a literal divide down the centre of postcodes because the immigrants want to live amongst the other like immigrants and the people who aren't immigrants don't want to live amongst them. There is no integration, multi culturalism is a failed experiment, people didn't want it but we're never given a choice.

In fairness though mate, have much of that is genuinely extremists dominating the fear divide. Sweden went wrong, not because (strictly) of continued immigration. It went wrong because the right got louder, and then we had nutters burning the Quran and completely stoking the fires of hatred.

There is a reaction to that, but it doesn't always start from a place of truth. Again it's not to say their aren't issues and problems, we all know they exist, but you listen to the media and the mouthpieces and it's 100% - the reality is barely 5% absolute tops, and probably a lot less.

I've lived my life as multi-cultural, it works, it has worked and it's fine. I've said before, my old man went back to our old stomping ground and worked in a predominantly Pakistani school. As a total stranger, he made tons of friends amongst the parents and grandparents.

The extremists and those who live in fear see problems that wouldn't exist, it's the whole NIMBY approach to life moving on. If people on all sides 'think' it can't work, it won't. If they think 'fuck it' and just say hello, there's progress.

Chico made a great point about investment, when I go through my old area, it looks dirtier to me. Why? Shops with garish signs and not the traditional ones I remember (the nostalgia box), fewer bins on the street and the ones that remain are full, I'd say a standard level of graffiti - but it's no longer being cleaned by the Council, instead you see the odd family trying to repaint themselves to show some personal pride. Some would say ghetto, I call it an area ignored whilst Brum City Council gives itself bonuses and spunks money on a computer system that doesn't work.

I would clarify my comment a bit, and hope it doesn't offend, but I believe it to be true. I was bought up in Witton,Handsworth Aston areas of Brum and I agree with a lot of your post. I had Irish mates, I had black mates, and in later life great Indian neighbours. The group that always stood apart were the Pakistani Muslims. They seemed to have an aversion to anyone other than their own religious group, and it's this that creates the divides. It's been my personal experience they just don't want to mix. This causes a lot of the division we see in our towns and cities.

I don't know if this is where a generational gap comes in possibly? On my experience, I had no problems at all with people of my generation. Families were a bit more circumspect (if I can phrase it that way) but not my peers (or any colour or gender). Or whether it would be better described as a lag over from the overt racism we all know was there years back.

But parents never warmed to me, didn't really want me in the house and so on, but never an issue with kids of my age, or younger brothers and sisters. As I remember it, that was broadly true whether black, Moslem, Sikh, Hindu and so on.

Again, I know others have different experiences and I'm not saying mine are right and they are wrong, I just think it shows though that broadstroking has to be wrong as we all can't be wrong in our own lived experience. But what is true is there are nutters, wronguns and people who need better mental health care, on all sides and it's about time Government's and the media stopped playing distraction politics to divide, and instead sorted the situation out.

I mentioned the poor 6 yr old lad in the US last night, that's terrorism. Israeli's and Palestinian's being attacked in the UK right now by nutters - that's terrorism.

I know you agree, as do others, as do those in my own family who follow Islam, sort the system out, drop down on the idiots who make life hard for everyone, and stop playing the hate game.

Then we'll get somewhere.
 
don't know if this is where a generational gap comes in possibly?
In the context of my post, yes definitely. I am old enough to remember the no blacks, Irish or dogs signs. That wasn't applicable where we lived, it was very close to Villa Park, and if you supported The Villa you were in. The generational thing very strong, because you had in the case of a Pakistani families a father or older uncle that was total head of the family, and a family just arrived from Pakistan found Witton a big culture shock. Us kids were allowed to do things they strongly objected to, and they kept their kids apart from us. Probably is different now, but the point of my post was that we still have towns in the country where nothing seems have changed much in sixty years.
 
I would clarify my comment a bit, and hope it doesn't offend, but I believe it to be true. I was bought up in Witton,Handsworth Aston areas of Brum and I agree with a lot of your post. I had Irish mates, I had black mates, and in later life great Indian neighbours. The group that always stood apart were the Pakistani Muslims. They seemed to have an aversion to anyone other than their own religious group, and it's this that creates the divides. It's been my personal experience they just don't want to mix. This causes a lot of the division we see in our towns and cities.

I have a family of Iraqi Muslims opposite me. They point blank refuse to integrate into the community and it has just led to everyone in the street hating them. I've tried in the past to speak to them but they just aren't interested.
 
In the context of my post, yes definitely. I am old enough to remember the no blacks, Irish or dogs signs. That wasn't applicable where we lived, it was very close to Villa Park, and if you supported The Villa you were in. The generational thing very strong, because you had in the case of a Pakistani families a father or older uncle that was total head of the family, and a family just arrived from Pakistan found Witton a big culture shock. Us kids were allowed to do things they strongly objected to, and they kept their kids apart from us. Probably is different now, but the point of my post was that we still have towns in the country where nothing seems have changed much in sixty years.

It's why it's difficult to call on a generalisation front, I certainly don't doubt there are areas out there that haven't changed when it comes to families who are more set in their ways, and maybe wary, but other areas have seen wholesale changes, full integration and whilst their own values and beliefs hold true, in not being so strict to them, there's a very easy middle ground where multi-culturalism can thrive.

It's an ebb and flow thing though and constantly changing, but it only works (like most things in life) when all sides are open to it.