Tax dodgers (n/g) | Vital Football

Tax dodgers (n/g)

Quick scan. There is a huge amount of takeaway shops, restaurants and cafes on that list owing £10’s of thousands.

Is that just a product of Covid lockdowns? Or are takeaway/cafe owners as a breed just tax dodgers at heart?
 
Also a lot of construction/trades people.

Notorious sectors for evasion. Cash in hand, undeclared earnings etc.

I think it is partly due to the type of people that are attracted to those industries. The same was evident pre-COVID.

I’d hypothesise that some of it is through financial illiteracy combined with an unwillingness to spend money on professionals, like accountants.
 
Trashy has a lot of that right in my book.

Lots of predictable industries in there. Some will be malicious, some will be inability to understand liabilities of a business and others will be to avoid hitting the VAT threshold where their business model will fall apart.

A couple of years ago a chippy I went to semi-regularly upped their minimum card charge from £5 to £20. I challenged it and they claimed it was to do with card charges. I know through my work and other businesses exactly what card rates are so told them it was a load of bollocks and they're either money laundering or dodging tax. I didn't buy that day and I've never been back.
 
Trashy has a lot of that right in my book.

Lots of predictable industries in there. Some will be malicious, some will be inability to understand liabilities of a business and others will be to avoid hitting the VAT threshold where their business model will fall apart.

A couple of years ago a chippy I went to semi-regularly upped their minimum card charge from £5 to £20. I challenged it and they claimed it was to do with card charges. I know through my work and other businesses exactly what card rates are so told them it was a load of bollocks and they're either money laundering or dodging tax. I didn't buy that day and I've never been back.
smells a bit fishy to me
 
So there is not a single poster on this site who's not paid in cash at some time or other to avoid VAT?

Not excusing any of those above exposed either personally or business wise but many are not squeaky clean even in a small way.
 
So there is not a single poster on this site who's not paid in cash at some time or other to avoid VAT?
Not excusing any of those above exposed either personally or business wise but many are not squeaky clean even in a small way.

I am not sure there are many people who pay in cash that are actually avoiding the VAT. Mostly, they only have the word of the contractor that they are givng you a cheaper price, and you will notice that the trade off is that they do not give you any paperwork.

I am convinced that in the majoriuty if cases it is those that are being paid that keep what would normally be the VAT portion, with no paper trail to evidence the work and prove otherwise.
 
It's one thing to occasionally pay someone cash in hand and quite another to run a business where you routinely do that to conceal earnings. I suspect more cash payments are solicited rather than freely offered. The main point about tax dodging for me is that it is driven by opportunity, like fraud and cheating of every sort. It's most galling to those, who don't have the opportunity (mainly PAYEers) and so consider themselves in a higher moral position. I don't think I'd have been overly tempted but who knows, my temptations were different.

My own immediate personal observations suggest that some of the biggest moaners about taxation are those that pay the least and dodge the most. It can be almost comical, I think of my wife's cousin a plasterer by trade, who has paid not a penny piece in income tax or NI in decades. I think also of a brother in law who has spent so much time and energy avoiding tax that he has damaged his health, his marriage and paradoxically his finances. Money business is boring enough without turning it into your life's focus.
 
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Strange thing tax. We demonise those playing the sytem whilst at the same time as Phil says above are happy to pay a builder cash to save ourselves a grand or two, as well as make cult hero’s out of fictional characters such as Del Boy and Arthur Daily .
 
Strange thing tax. We demonise those playing the sytem whilst at the same time as Phil says above are happy to pay a builder cash to save ourselves a grand or two, as well as make cult hero’s out of fictional characters such as Del Boy and Arthur Daily .

Happy to pay £10K plus in cash with no receipt. I don't think so. Years ago I paid a way smaller sum in cash and got a crap job, served me right and I learned.
 
Quick scan. There is a huge amount of takeaway shops, restaurants and cafes on that list owing £10’s of thousands.
Yep, takeaways, HGV drivers and construction workers. And a lot of foreign names too (over half from a quick scan).

Work hard, earn money, go home.
 
So there is not a single poster on this site who's not paid in cash at some time or other to avoid VAT?

Not excusing any of those above exposed either personally or business wise but many are not squeaky clean even in a small way.

Avoid? I think you mean evade.

I haven’t done that. I’d be struck off if it ever came to light, it’d be in the press, I’d be hit with penalties and I’d never get work again.

I wonder whether the buyer could ever get in to trouble for a cash payment. Surely the obligation is on the supplier to account for monies in the correct way.
 
Happy to pay £10K plus in cash with no receipt. I don't think so. Years ago I paid a way smaller sum in cash and got a crap job, served me right and I learned.
I concur. I might come across as prissy, but I wouldn't pay cash so someone can avoid tax.
 
Avoid? I think you mean evade.

I haven’t done that. I’d be struck off if it ever came to light, it’d be in the press, I’d be hit with penalties and I’d never get work again.
Same (I wouldn't be in the press, but I would lose my job)
 
I always ask if I will get an official invoice/reciept if a tradesperson offes a cash discount. Much harder to get someone back to fix any issues if there is no official payment proof or warranty from the business.
 
I am not sure there are many people who pay in cash that are actually avoiding the VAT. Mostly, they only have the word of the contractor that they are givng you a cheaper price, and you will notice that the trade off is that they do not give you any paperwork.

I am convinced that in the majoriuty if cases it is those that are being paid that keep what would normally be the VAT portion, with no paper trail to evidence the work and prove otherwise.
The paperwork issue is very valid. Many years ago (when I was young and naive) I paid cash fir a boiler installation, saved about £300 but when the time came to sell the house I had massive problems as the buyer wanted assurances that it had been fitted to the correct standards etc. It had as it had been fitted by a corgi registered fitter etc (friend of a friend) but proving it was impossible as I had no paperwork or warranty etc.
Never done that again, especially with gas fitters/electricians etc. Even having a new front door fitted required proof of building regs adherence when I sold my last place 🤔
 
It's one thing to occasionally pay someone cash in hand and quite another to run a business where you routinely do that to conceal earnings. I suspect more cash payments are solicited rather than freely offered. The main point about tax dodging for me is that it is driven by opportunity, like fraud and cheating of every sort. It's most galling to those, who don't have the opportunity (mainly PAYEers) and so consider themselves in a higher moral position. I don't think I'd have been overly tempted but who knows, my temptations were different.

My own immediate personal observations suggest that some of the biggest moaners about taxation are those that pay the least and dodge the most. It can be almost comical, I think of my wife's cousin a plasterer by trade, who has paid not a penny piece in income tax or NI in decades. I think also of a brother in law who has spent so much time and energy avoiding tax that he has damaged his health, his marriage and paradoxically his finances. Money business is boring enough without turning it into your life's focus.

Two stories…

My self-employed PT was furious with the Treasury that he didn’t receive any COVID support when some of his colleagues had. Turned out that he’d declared zero self-employed profits for the last 10 years!

Similarly, I’ve had clients who have racked up huge business expenses to reduce their company profits and reduce the amount of corporation tax. And they can’t understand why the banks are unwilling to lend them money for a mortgage. Comes down to a simple equation... …pay some tax so you can get a mortgage.
 
Cash won't be around in near future (5 years?) , so it will not be an issue.

Will certainly be less of an issue because electronic payment provide a paper trail and transparency.

But that doesn’t stop people from over claiming / making up spurious expenses to reduce their tax liabilities.