🚹 Tanguy Ndombélé - Player Thread | Page 3 | Vital Football

🚹 Tanguy Ndombélé - Player Thread

We'll see. I am more concerned about how a team, that's been stuck in sideways and backwards mode' for the past two years will adapt to Ndom and help get the best out of him. High expectations amongst the fans, just as we did when Moura arrived. Only seen flashes of Moura of PSG.

Don't get me wrong, I am just as excited as the Spur next to me. He's the sort of box to boxer we yearned for. I thought Paulinho was that player too and we apparently 'broke' him.

If Eriksen leaves we’ll need a better player than Alli to complement what Tanguy can offer, I am hoping Ceballos is signed up too.

I wasn't convinced Paulinho was that player. How did we break him? He wasn't good enough.
 
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If Eriksen leaves we’ll need a better player than Alli to complement what Tanguy can offer, I am hoping Ceballos is signed up too.

I wasn't convinced Paulinho was that player. How did we break him? He wasn't good enough.

Rich, a poster on front page (Totalknobhead and two other aliases) used to be based in Brazil. He was/is our source of input from that part of the world. Their press and fans were suggesting we broke Paulinho. Although we bought him on the back of one good WC!
 
Barcelona have done alright with Paulinho.The Premiership is too rugged for some players.That doesn't make them bad players. Spanish football culture values touch players over physical players.I won't knock that ,it's a joy to watch, but so is our style.Variety is the spice of life.
 
Rich, a poster on front page (Totalknobhead and two other aliases) used to be based in Brazil. He was/is our source of input from that part of the world. Their press and fans were suggesting we broke Paulinho. Although we bought him on the back of one good WC!

I don’t agree with the opinion of their press & fans. I believe we bought him on the back of one Confederations cup. I remember a home game against the chavs soon after he signed for us a chance came to him early in the game, that required a level of technique to slot the chance away, Paulinho didn’t show it, he missed. As time went on, his poor technical play confirmed the doubts I had about him.
 
I don’t agree with the opinion of their press & fans. I believe we bought him on the back of one Confederations cup. I remember a home game against the chavs soon after he signed for us a chance came to him early in the game, that required a level of technique to slot the chance away, Paulinho didn’t show it, he missed. As time went on, his poor technical play confirmed the doubts I had about him.

he was technically a shocking player; never ever thought he'd contribute with us, for him to shine he needed an acre of space and 90 mins on the ball - was mightily relieved when we sold him - it says something about him that we could only get a Chinese team interested in him; his subsequent sale to Barca was a mask for some other dealings - but that's another whole new story.
 
he was technically a shocking player; never ever thought he'd contribute with us, for him to shine he needed an acre of space and 90 mins on the ball - was mightily relieved when we sold him - it says something about him that we could only get a Chinese team interested in him; his subsequent sale to Barca was a mask for some other dealings - but that's another whole new story.

We broke most of our midfielders during the transitional 3-4 year spell of Harry, AVB, Sherwood and Poch though. Dembele was probably the most affected as the most talented out of all of them. He was behind Mason and Bentaleb in Poch's first season with Stambouli even ahead of him.

Fair play to Poch though. He utilised the trustworthy Mason for a while and made his early choices on Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Bentaleb, Carroll etc. That left Dembele to become a Spurs great whilst creating space for Dier, Wanyama and Winks.

It almost feels like Poch is going through a similar process now but this time it could easily be Dier and Wanyama that are deemed as surplus.
 
We broke most of our midfielders during the transitional 3-4 year spell of Harry, AVB, Sherwood and Poch though. Dembele was probably the most affected as the most talented out of all of them. He was behind Mason and Bentaleb in Poch's first season with Stambouli even ahead of him.

Fair play to Poch though. He utilised the trustworthy Mason for a while and made his early choices on Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Bentaleb, Carroll etc. That left Dembele to become a Spurs great whilst creating space for Dier, Wanyama and Winks.

It almost feels like Poch is going through a similar process now but this time it could easily be Dier and Wanyama that are deemed as surplus.
Was he broken, or just not suited to the EPL? Those players that were bought in with the Bale money, were under the 'Moneyball' experiment, with a heavy reliance on statistics. AVB didn't want most of the players that were signed during that period.
 
Was he broken, or just not suited to the EPL? Those players that were bought in with the Bale money, were under the 'Moneyball' experiment, with a heavy reliance on statistics. AVB didn't want most of the players that were signed during that period.

AVB didn’t want them, but Baldini did, so we squandered most of the Bale money, apart from Eriksen, on not good enough players.
 
We broke most of our midfielders during the transitional 3-4 year spell of Harry, AVB, Sherwood and Poch though. Dembele was probably the most affected as the most talented out of all of them. He was behind Mason and Bentaleb in Poch's first season with Stambouli even ahead of him.

Fair play to Poch though. He utilised the trustworthy Mason for a while and made his early choices on Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Bentaleb, Carroll etc. That left Dembele to become a Spurs great whilst creating space for Dier, Wanyama and Winks.

It almost feels like Poch is going through a similar process now but this time it could easily be Dier and Wanyama that are deemed as surplus.


We 'broke' them?! Seriously?

Dembele couldn't/wouldn't at first press the ball; he was too unfit, to cumbersome and just couldn't do what was necessary for 90 mins. Poch and his team spent ages on trying to up his fitness levels which had suffered because of his upper hamstring/hip issue. He was behind everyone else because of this, I recall watching the team do a fitness session at WHL and Dembele was along with a fitness coach going through the motions - he could barely run!!

Dembele never ever fulfilled his promise, (his decision making at times used to drive us all utterly nuts) not at Fulham nor with us; a very good player, who should have been a great one with all his attributes; but I read his scouting report before he moved and it was full of all the weaknesses that we've discussed here many times. He probably had one imposing game out of ten for us during his time with us, he had short dominant periods where he was even during one period the player he should have been.

He flattered to deceive, we never broke him his inability to pass forward, make the telling contribution is what limited him, that and his inability or unwillingness to shoot when he should have. It's funny I can only recall one decent goal he scored for us.
 
We 'broke' them?! Seriously?

Dembele couldn't/wouldn't at first press the ball; he was too unfit, to cumbersome and just couldn't do what was necessary for 90 mins. Poch and his team spent ages on trying to up his fitness levels which had suffered because of his upper hamstring/hip issue. He was behind everyone else because of this, I recall watching the team do a fitness session at WHL and Dembele was along with a fitness coach going through the motions - he could barely run!!

Dembele never ever fulfilled his promise, (his decision making at times used to drive us all utterly nuts) not at Fulham nor with us; a very good player, who should have been a great one with all his attributes; but I read his scouting report before he moved and it was full of all the weaknesses that we've discussed here many times. He probably had one imposing game out of ten for us during his time with us, he had short dominant periods where he was even during one period the player he should have been.

He flattered to deceive, we never broke him his inability to pass forward, make the telling contribution is what limited him, that and his inability or unwillingness to shoot when he should have. It's funny I can only recall one decent goal he scored for us.

I think we all see different things. I saw a player at Fulham who made Dempsey the player he was. Dembele was always stretching the defence, getting in between the centre half and full back, running with the ball and was a complete menace in the final third. Of course Dempsey got the credit as he was the one putting the ball in the net. Hodgson was one of the first to play that 4-2-3-1 with guys like Murphy in the 2 and Dempsey, Dembele in the 3 behind a lump like Zamora up front. It worked for them.

Then he moved to Spurs and you're probably right about his fitness. The key adjustment was moving him out of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 back into the 2 man pivot. For me, every player around him started to feel his impact, especially Eriksen who seemed to love playing with him. For me, never a 1 in 10 player especially in that season with Wanyama. He was inconsistent though and the constant injuries were his downfall for club and country. I think we shifted him about the right time. It's a shame we didn't replace him before he had to leave though. Sissoko has played well, but I would never say that he makes the players around him tick like Dembele did. Sissoko does his own thing. I'm hoping Ndombele has that same ability as Dembele to raise the levels of the players around him and knit things together.
 
This is a deadly serious question . Can somebody please explain to me how a player gets “broken”.
How do “we” “ break” a player Where does the phrase “ we broke him “ come from and what does it mean ?
Do “we “ untrain him , uncoach him, unenergise him, unpassion him, teach him how not to play football, how to not want to win ?
I am genuinely 100% desperate to know because I do not have a clue what all this means
 
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This is a deadly serious question . Can somebody please explain to me how a player gets “broken”.
How do “we” “ brake” a player Where does the phrase “ we broke him “ come from and what does it mean ?
Do “we “ untrain him , uncoach him, unenergise him, unpassion him, teach him how not to play football, how to not want to win ?
I am genuinely 100% desperate to know because I do not have a clue what all this means
Maybe cynically, but i sometimes think a player (a person) can have such a big ego which makes them fragile and vulnerable to toppling, like an upside-down pyramid. so one little slight knock and they're reeling, like not being in the team Saturday, when that gets back to their mum and sisters and friends on the street and they start texting about it, then one of their brothers goes to the press for cash and is out one night walking his dog on a rope to spend the cash and meets a man he likes who becomes his brother's new agent... i don't really know but words like snowflake and narcissist come to mind. the weaker victim side of our male psychology. i try to keep high hopes whilst managing low expectations. truth is they mostly break themselves because they aren't built of what Bill Nick or Danny Blanchflower or Dave Mackay or Graham Roberts had. they just snap like a little pencil. they're fine really, just need a new shirt and plenty of hugs. my job studies and works with male psychology WW so this is the cynical side shared with spurs people. the professional side is that such a person needs to develop themselves (with help) psychologically in order to be self-efficacious, appropriately resilient, and stop reacting from archaic victimhood and respond with their own creative/constructive chosen path forwards (all with help). Ex will better know just how much this kind of psychological assessment is done these days by our club prior to purchase and during playing years, but lemon jokes aside, i am sure Poch is very switched onto this so we don't end up with a Sanchez (Chile) or Ooozil type. We all need support as men, but much of it needs to start within self if it is to be healthy man. To briefly add there's considered to be around 5 psychological levels that all people can develop or NOT develop through. The second bottom level is child stuff and clearly this needs to be gone beyond for someone in high stakes professional environment. it's part of their job. look at someone like Toby, i love his human maturity. Jimmy too, i just love as a man how much self-respect he has had, didn't put his ire out their, got on with life and has been beloved by many. Ali is different. Gazza was too. it can of course be very delicate and difficult to dictate exactly what to do. sorry, long post but like you i get pissed off with how glib stuff like "spurs broke me" can be used by players and media.
 
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I think we all see different things. I saw a player at Fulham who made Dempsey the player he was. Dembele was always stretching the defence, getting in between the centre half and full back, running with the ball and was a complete menace in the final third. Of course Dempsey got the credit as he was the one putting the ball in the net. Hodgson was one of the first to play that 4-2-3-1 with guys like Murphy in the 2 and Dempsey, Dembele in the 3 behind a lump like Zamora up front. It worked for them.

Then he moved to Spurs and you're probably right about his fitness. The key adjustment was moving him out of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 back into the 2 man pivot. For me, every player around him started to feel his impact, especially Eriksen who seemed to love playing with him. For me, never a 1 in 10 player especially in that season with Wanyama. He was inconsistent though and the constant injuries were his downfall for club and country. I think we shifted him about the right time. It's a shame we didn't replace him before he had to leave though. Sissoko has played well, but I would never say that he makes the players around him tick like Dembele did. Sissoko does his own thing. I'm hoping Ndombele has that same ability as Dembele to raise the levels of the players around him and knit things together.

It is a game of opinions, but I saw a player who had no playing intelligence and was about as threatening in the final third as Lloris. 6 goals in nearly 80 appearances in all competition and 6 assists; for an AM, or as some claimed a box to box player; he'd constantly drive me and others around me absolutely nuts with his poor decision making- perhaps one of the most frustrating players we've ever had, he'd win space and time with his strength but would run and dribble with his head down and then only to have to beat the same oppositions players two or three times by which time he'd smothered our counter-attacking and force us to play at a crawl.

Notwithstanding his poor decision making, he really should have risen to the top of his game, but it didn't matter where he played he just always fell short (as `i said even the stats as you analyze them and go back over the old match reports show a player who was woefully inconsistent - and that and his long term injuries did for him.

I enjoyed watching him when he was on song, but that was a rarity, so I maintain we did nothing to break him as a player, but neither did we manage to get any level of consistency out of him, let alone develop his footballing intelligence.
 
sorry Ex... I'm not going to write out my long explanation of why the 1 in 10 thing isn't fair as I've done it before and I don't like repeating myself. But I'll try and write a much shorter version...

1 - There's a reason every Spurs player interviewed a couple years ago said Dembele is the best player they've ever played with. Muttley's point about him raising the games of the players around him is bang on the money.
2 - A player who can receive a ball under pressure and find space more than 9/10 times is invaluable, and probably saved us dozens of conceded goals with his time with us just by stopping a situation becoming a turnover.
3 - Yes he didn't do many incisive final balls but he often pulled an entire team's defensive shape apart as he broke past 2-3 players, and drew others onto him before passing it sideways or backwards.

One thing I'd clarify on Muttley's points is my recollection of when he joined us. He was moved into the 2 of the 4-2-3-1 because AVB realised he was better used there due to his lack of killer instinct in the final 3rd but only after he'd sort of failed to make an impact in the 3. Agree with pretty much everything else though.

It's funny as he was a striker under Jol if I remember rightly... Seemed the longer his career went on the further back he got moved. He actually did a job for us as a full back once. Wonder if he'll finish as a goalie.
 
sorry Ex... I'm not going to write out my long explanation of why the 1 in 10 thing isn't fair as I've done it before and I don't like repeating myself. But I'll try and write a much shorter version...

1 - There's a reason every Spurs player interviewed a couple years ago said Dembele is the best player they've ever played with. Muttley's point about him raising the games of the players around him is bang on the money.
2 - A player who can receive a ball under pressure and find space more than 9/10 times is invaluable, and probably saved us dozens of conceded goals with his time with us just by stopping a situation becoming a turnover.
3 - Yes he didn't do many incisive final balls but he often pulled an entire team's defensive shape apart as he broke past 2-3 players, and drew others onto him before passing it sideways or backwards.

One thing I'd clarify on Muttley's points is my recollection of when he joined us. He was moved into the 2 of the 4-2-3-1 because AVB realised he was better used there due to his lack of killer instinct in the final 3rd but only after he'd sort of failed to make an impact in the 3. Agree with pretty much everything else though.

It's funny as he was a striker under Jol if I remember rightly... Seemed the longer his career went on the further back he got moved. He actually did a job for us as a full back once. Wonder if he'll finish as a goalie.

Memory is not perhaps what it should be. I thought we had a period in Dembele's first season when Sandro - Dembele had replaced Modric - Parker. They were getting plaudits for their performances. That was the first time I saw Dembele in a 2 man centre mid.

I can't remember what happened in the disastrous AVB/Sherwood season but 2 seasons later (Poch's first season) it was Mason and Bentaleb that seemed to be the trusted centre mid with Stambouli, Paulinho etc supporting. Dembele came more into it at the end of the season but had some sort of chronic ankle issue.

Clearly in his last 3 seasons, Dembele was only deployed as a centre mid.