Tactical simulation and tactical fouling.. | Vital Football

Tactical simulation and tactical fouling..

Spursex

Spursex

Alert Team
Muttley made this post in Little bro big Bro thread:

It hit a cord as it was a topic of conversation after the game as well...but I ranted a bit about what I bought up last year, which is ManCity fouling last season.....have we finally learned something from the Spanish and Italian leagues / players?

"I always have a soft spot for Villa, but agree with what you're saying.

They won't win friends either if they continue with the diving, rolling around the floor and trying everything they know to con the ref. Wesley and Trezeguet were the worst but Grealish and McGinn played their part too. I'm expecting them to get a reputation quickly if they keep approaching the game that way..."
 
From Sky sports:





City and the tactical foul

skysports-raheem-sterling-manchester-city_4741830.jpg


Not everyone was so enamoured with Manchester City's performance with West Ham coach Manuel Pellegrini complaining about the use of tactical fouls by his old team. "The reason we didn't create too many chances is because all of our offensive ways of attacking resulted in a foul," Pellegrini said. "Every time we tried to arrive in their box they committed fouls."

Pellegrini highlighted the fact that City made 13 fouls on the day. That is a little surprising because the champions actually committed fewer fouls last season than every other Premier League team with the exception of Liverpool. Fuss over nothing? Not quite. This merely reflects the fact that the opposition sees so little of the ball against Guardiola's side.

When it comes to fouls per opposition pass, only a handful of teams transgress more regularly than City. "They lose the ball and bang, they go straight away," said Jack Wilshere. "It happens so quickly and they bring you down." Referees tend not to reach for the card because these fouls happen so far from City's goal.
And that, of course, is just the way they like it.
 
Last edited:
Good god is this news? Been saying it to my son since the minute Klopp and PG got here. It’s disgusting the way those two teams get away with a clumsy but not intentionally dangerous tackle at every single sign of opposition attack. Ref MUST stamp it out as it’s akin to clipping someone’s ankles. They break the play, reset the team and never get caught out attacking with their wing backs out of position. It’s a dark art and anti football imo
 
I would also throw in the debate about yellows. In our game, only Lamela got booked and that was for the new rule of leaving the pitch. 5 years ago you would have watched that game and there might have been 4 or 5 yellows. I think the officials are leaving themselves open to the tactical fouling and simulation as they are unwilling to yield the cards nowadays. That's clearly guidance from the governing bodies.

They also have technology nowadays. If a player knew that there was a counter on them for repetitive fouling and the ref was being advised on yellows from the video referee, then they would have to be careful. Similar with simulation. If they thought they got away with it and then the video ref told the on pitch ref to yield a card a minute later, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
 
I just think it needs stronger refereeing. If the head of refs commented on this dark art. Said he had given refs pointers on how to target it, I’m sure teams would quickly take account of it. I truly believe it is something Man City and Liverpool would lose 20-30% effectiveness if it is pulled up. Yellow cards in first 10mins and full backs with highest assist levels getting caught out of position. Let’s see if Virgil is quite so good when teams can hit him on the break quickly and without being interrupted by a foul.
 
Real Deal said:
Worked a treat though. Took the sting out of the spammers every time he did it. Clever play.
Click to expand...
Clever? Only because the ref was a wuss...I’m tired of so-called professionals advocating fouling as a legitimate part of the game...how many times do you hear one of them say “should have fouled him before he shot/made the pass” etc...VAR is causing a fuss because players find it more difficult to get away with breaking the laws of the game, some of which I think are stupid eg: the off-side rule as it stands...so-called professional fouls should be red cards in my book if they can be validated by VAR.
 
Harry-Kari said:
Clever? Only because the ref was a wuss...I’m tired of so-called professionals advocating fouling as a legitimate part of the game...how many times do you hear one of them say “should have fouled him before he shot/made the pass” etc...VAR is causing a fuss because players find it more difficult to get away with breaking the laws of the game, some of which I think are stupid eg: the off-side rule as it stands...so-called professional fouls should be red cards in my book if they can be validated by VAR.
Click to expand...

Not sure about the red card bit, perhaps yellow as that either leads to a change in behaviour or leads to a red. But spot on though.

What's ruining football is referees ignoring the very laws of the game they are there to implement.
 
Another ploy being used is the constant diving to gain a free kick Hazard , Sterling . Young , Pedro, Rashford , Salah and others have been doing this for years and I’m fed up banging on about it. It’s endemic in the Chavs squad , you can’t go anywhere near them without them throwing themselves to the ground . Hazard was/is a master at it . The runs himself into a corner that he can’t get out of , suddenly slows down and magically gets a free kick when touched by the chasing defender . Sterling took it one step further by throwing himself to the floor and catching the ball as he fell. This gave the ref no option but to give the free kick as the ball was no longer in play .
Villa were doing this all game on Saturday , falling all over the place . and I mentioned it in my post about the game . It really winds me up . One time , Rose was just astounded a free kick had been given and just stood there laughing .
Another clever tactic/ ploy was the one handed throw in perfected by Gary Neville , and copied by many . It looked like he was using the legal and proper two hands to propel the ball but was in fact chucking it one handed which is against the law . If you havent tried it , it’s amazing how accurate and powerful it is to be able to get greater distance.
Refs really need to be more in control and stop being scared of stopping these underhand tricks by the superstars of the top clubs , makes my blood boil
 
muttley said:
I would also throw in the debate about yellows. In our game, only Lamela got booked and that was for the new rule of leaving the pitch. 5 years ago you would have watched that game and there might have been 4 or 5 yellows. I think the officials are leaving themselves open to the tactical fouling and simulation as they are unwilling to yield the cards nowadays. That's clearly guidance from the governing bodies.

They also have technology nowadays. If a player knew that there was a counter on them for repetitive fouling and the ref was being advised on yellows from the video referee, then they would have to be careful. Similar with simulation. If they thought they got away with it and then the video ref told the on pitch ref to yield a card a minute later, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
Click to expand...
Only Lamela got booked for not leaving the field by the shortest route as you rightly say. But at least he was running off and not walking . It was in the manner that had been used the entire time substitutes have been in existence . For the first game he should have been given some slack , as other refs did in other games
. Can you imagine a player, having been booked ,being booked again for leaving from the wrong route. It’s a very grey area and a dangerous new law in my opinion .
Just suppose , for instance , we are away at Anfield in a highly charged match . Rose is playing on the furthest touchline from the tunnel and has made a few dodgy tackles which have wound up the locals . His next dodgy tackle in this charged atmosphere earns him a booking . The crowd are baying for him to be sent off , in their polite understanding way. Poch decides its time to sub him and he has to walk all around the ground , unprotected , whist the audience are politely telling him that they are going to remove him from their Christmas card list, as the scouse darlings are prone to do . It leaves the player open and vulnerable.
To me this is a daft rule , and needs rethinking.
 
Harry-Kari said:
Clever? Only because the ref was a wuss...I’m tired of so-called professionals advocating fouling as a legitimate part of the game...how many times do you hear one of them say “should have fouled him before he shot/made the pass” etc...VAR is causing a fuss because players find it more difficult to get away with breaking the laws of the game, some of which I think are stupid eg: the off-side rule as it stands...so-called professional fouls should be red cards in my book if they can be validated by VAR.
Click to expand...

Spot on. The quicker professional fouls were punished by a red card, the better the game would become.

Although it occurs to me it could be the perfect offence to introduce a 10 minute sin bin for...
 
Last edited:
Walthamstow wanderer said:
Only Lamela got booked for not leaving the field by the shortest route as you rightly say. But at least he was running off and not walking . It was in the manner that had been used the entire time substitutes have been in existence . For the first game he should have been given some slack , as other refs did in other games
. Can you imagine a player, having been booked ,being booked again for leaving from the wrong route. It’s a very grey area and a dangerous new law in my opinion .
Just suppose , for instance , we are away at Anfield in a highly charged match . Rose is playing on the furthest touchline from the tunnel and has made a few dodgy tackles which have wound up the locals . His next dodgy tackle in this charged atmosphere earns him a booking . The crowd are baying for him to be sent off , in their polite understanding way. Poch decides its time to sub him and he has to walk all around the ground , unprotected , whist the audience are politely telling him that they are going to remove him from their Christmas card list, as the scouse darlings are prone to do . It leaves the player open and vulnerable.
To me this is a daft rule , and needs rethinking.
Click to expand...

It was a very poor change to the rule. They should have just taken the hard line and said once your number is held up, you have to run in a straight line to the half way line and get off the pitch. I was at Twickenham yesterday and all subs for both sides were off and on quickly. No fuss and no rule needed.
 
Spursex said:
Spot on. The quicker professional fouls were punished by a red card, the better the game would become.

Although it occurs to me it could be the perfect offence to introduce a 10 minute sin bin for...
Click to expand...

Great call. Love the sin bin idea.
 
I agree with most of the points here, but a slight devil's advocate point is that teams that press high are going to give away more fouls at the far end of the pitch. We seem to not do it anywhere near as much but wouldn't surprise me if a couple seasons ago we were guilty of a similar number of offences despite having majority of possession against some sides.
 
muttley said:
It was a very poor change to the rule. They should have just taken the hard line and said once your number is held up, you have to run in a straight line to the half way line and get off the pitch. I was at Twickenham yesterday and all subs for both sides were off and on quickly. No fuss and no rule needed.
Click to expand...
I would have made all players wear a green armband . When they are called off , they throw the armband to the floor . The oncoming player has to approach the armband at the same speed of travel as the subbed player , and put on the armband but the game is restarted as soon as he steps on the pitch . If he gets involved in the game before he picks up the armband or breaks any if the conditions above , he gets sent off. Simples ha ha ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.