Surely dead man walking | Page 83 | Vital Football

Surely dead man walking

I disagree TB, the managers actions/behaviour reflect on the club. As you know I have zero confidence in his abilities and his behaviour toward officials is very poor. The man was bollocked after 5 minutes in the Sheff Wed game when literally nothing had occurred for example and I think has been booked ten times now. It’s little wonder they take no notice of him as his reactions are disproportionate.

However on this occasion I can understand his reaction and they were proportionate as the referee was staggeringly incompetent - the non red card on Moore for example is one of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen. He negatively affected the outcome of the game and as such I understand why he expressed his thoughts to this bloke on this occasion. Personally he should have been more explicit in his post match press conference. I’ll also say respect between officials and clubs should work both ways and I’ve yet to see any form of apology by this referee or his professional body for such an appalling display.

I can't disagree with you relating to your second paragraph and had I personally had the opportunity to speak with the referee I doubt I could have kept it civil. I just wish the FA would understand this. Unfortunately they don't and will no doubt give him a fine and a suspension.

The referee on this occasion should have understood the situation he created was going to cause a reaction of this nature and been man enough to accept that he was going to get some flak. I think that referees need to understand that their actions have consequences and clubs fighting for their survival need to see some sort of consistency in their decisions. The player that brought Moore down was their last man and the tackle was ill timed and potentially dangerous, he was given the benefit of the doubt and yellow carded. Dunkley's attempt was equally ill timed but made little contact with the player and yet, although knowing the player was on a yellow, he was not given the same benefit of the doubt. That is what is so incensing on this occasion.
 

The_Pon

Vital Reserves Team
In the industry I work in, I deal a lot with insurance companies. Insurance inspectors are the 'referees' of my world. I don't always agree with their assessments on a host of matters, but I still have to be respectful.

Everyone knows what company I work for, and if I got a bollocking for being abusive and using foul language to an inspector, it would reflect very negatively on me and my employer.

As such, however much I may disagree with them at times, I have to be respectful and calm when I raise my disagreements. That's to my benefit and to my employer's benefit. The fact that I'm polite and respectful means that the inspectors actually give me some respect back and often actually listen to what I'm saying.

Cook getting a bollocking after 5 minutes when nothing happened, then continuing to be objectionable to officials all game, pretty much every game, can't do us any favours.

The ref on Tuesday was absolutely disgusting in his bias, but there's a chicken and egg question there... Was Cook acting like that because the ref was biased or was the ref biased because Cook pissed him off?

If it was a one-off, I'd probably have backed Cook's reaction after Tuesday, but he does it pretty much every game. Referees talk to each other. Cook has a reputation, and that means referees are now coming into games with a downer on him, and that translates to 50/50 calls being 60/40 calls against us. Refs hate Cook (because of Cook's behaviour), so they're not going to do his team any favours or ever give us the benefit of the doubt.
 
TRUE BELIEVER

Don't be naive, Cook is a high ranking employee of Wigan Athletic and as such his behaviour reflects on the clubs image. Could you ever see Roberto acting in such an unprofessional manner.
As for the ref Apart from not sending the guy off he was only as bad as most of the refs weve had, Dunkley's decision could have gone either way. I saw the game and that's the way I saw it. How can you possibly keep defending Cook no one wanted him more than me but he has proved to be a disaster in the Championship.
I am not defending Cook, but on this occasion I can see the reason for his outburst.

As I have said the charge is against Paul Cook and not the club.

The disrepute, if any, is against Cook. Many other managers have been charged in this manner including notable names like Wenger and Ferguson . It is not as though he is being accused of anything like Venables, Redknapp or Allerdyce. He has made his thoughts known about a referee who in the opinion of both sets of players, staff, managers and fans was a complete shambles and totally out of his depth during the game. The decisions made by this man were extremely inconsistent and disrupted the game and the result.

I believe he let his emotions get the better of him and will no doubt be sorry that that happened but as I have said there were mitigating circumstances behind the outburst and he will no doubt be punished for saying what almost everyone else in the ground, apart from yourself obviously, would have liked to have said to the referee.

I am certainly not going to hold that against him.
 
In the industry I work in, I deal a lot with insurance companies. Insurance inspectors are the 'referees' of my world. I don't always agree with their assessments on a host of matters, but I still have to be respectful.

Everyone knows what company I work for, and if I got a bollocking for being abusive and using foul language to an inspector, it would reflect very negatively on me and my employer.

As such, however much I may disagree with them at times, I have to be respectful and calm when I raise my disagreements. That's to my benefit and to my employer's benefit. The fact that I'm polite and respectful means that the inspectors actually give me some respect back and often actually listen to what I'm saying.

Cook getting a bollocking after 5 minutes when nothing happened, then continuing to be objectionable to officials all game, pretty much every game, can't do us any favours.

The ref on Tuesday was absolutely disgusting in his bias, but there's a chicken and egg question there... Was Cook acting like that because the ref was biased or was the ref biased because Cook pissed him off?

If it was a one-off, I'd probably have backed Cook's reaction after Tuesday, but he does it pretty much every game. Referees talk to each other. Cook has a reputation, and that means referees are now coming into games with a downer on him, and that translates to 50/50 calls being 60/40 calls against us. Refs hate Cook (because of Cook's behaviour), so they're not going to do his team any favours or ever give us the benefit of the doubt.
First of all, if referees are coming into a game with the sort of attitude you are speaking about, then they should not hold the office.

To use your own circumstances as an analogy, if one of those inspectors comes to the dispute with a preconceived attitude you would no doubt be asking for them to be replaced due to their bias. A referee is there to solve a dispute and should have no preconception, he is not there for anything else, he should be judging the incident according to the rules of the game and giving a fair and balanced judgement.

You say you are polite and respectful to them and that is how it should be, but would you be as polite and respectful if one of them got you the sack because of his bias towards you, I seriously doubt it.

The calls made by the referee on Tuesday were not only a problem for us but for the opposition and by common consent were inconsistent and disrupting. Those sort of decisions change the outcome of games and can lead to the manager losing his job. As I said if your livelihood was on the line based on the inconsistent and biased decision being made by one of the inspectors you encounter would you not be frustrated and annoyed.

You say that Cook is always at it on the touchline, but so are many other managers. Most referees are accustomed to this and deal with it during the game, this time it boiled over. I agree that his antics are a distraction and would prefer him to calm down or go back to overseeing the game from the gantry, but on this occasion I understand why he overstepped the mark.
 

ZAKKY

Vital 1st Team Regular
I am not defending Cook, but on this occasion I can see the reason for his outburst.

As I have said the charge is against Paul Cook and not the club.

The disrepute, if any, is against Cook. Many other managers have been charged in this manner including notable names like Wenger and Ferguson . It is not as though he is being accused of anything like Venables, Redknapp or Allerdyce. He has made his thoughts known about a referee who in the opinion of both sets of players, staff, managers and fans was a complete shambles and totally out of his depth during the game. The decisions made by this man were extremely inconsistent and disrupted the game and the result.

I believe he let his emotions get the better of him and will no doubt be sorry that that happened but as I have said there were mitigating circumstances behind the outburst and he will no doubt be punished for saying what almost everyone else in the ground, apart from yourself obviously, would have liked to have said to the referee.

I am certainly not going to hold that against him.

Cook has repeatedly said in the past that he doesn't criticise referees or like to question there desitions, he just talks a load of Bollocks and is indefensible get him out of our club.
 
It would appear that both the Referee and his boss are in agreement regarding the assessment of his performance and his inconsistent judgement.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport...ws/wigan-boss-middlesbrough-fall-out-17747456

Cook says a chat with Alan Wiley, the referee director at PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Limited) has helped.

"With all the respect in the world, I've had long conversations this week with Alan Wiley," Cook told the Wigan Post.

"The best way I can put this, to put all this to bed, is the referee himself was very disappointed with his performance on Tuesday night in relation to the big decisions.

"We don't need to say any more, it's not a witch-hunt as far as we're concerned.

"Even though we've ended up with so many bookings - including managers - on the back of that, we must remain supportive of referees.

"They will get decisions wrong, but when they acknowledge they've got it wrong - and for both sides - that's all you can do.

"We have to support referees, and we hope they get more big decisions right than wrong."


 
TRUE BELIEVER

Don't be naive, Cook is a high ranking employee of Wigan Athletic and as such his behaviour reflects on the clubs image. Could you ever see Roberto acting in such an unprofessional manner.
As for the ref Apart from not sending the guy off he was only as bad as most of the refs weve had, Dunkley's decision could have gone either way. I saw the game and that's the way I saw it. How can you possibly keep defending Cook no one wanted him more than me but he has proved to be a disaster in the Championship.
Bang! Top corner that bro, well said. :clap:
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
He's either taking the piss or soft in the head that fella, but you knew that already didnt you?
Ah, projection ................. not as good as Donald Trump, but projection nonetheless.

If we were all to butt out when we're merely "talking for talking's sake", there'd be a damn sight fewer posts on here.

But you knew that already, didn't you.
;)
 
Moonay, read this slowly bro and do try to digest before posting again.

I'm not asking TB to stop posting, i'm asking him to stop kissing the arses of Cook, Royle and now fuckin' dickhead referees, Latics fans have had enough of the bullshit coming from the club, he won't change anyones mind on here with constant back him, back them shite!

Thats what i meant by "Butt out"
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
Moonay, read this slowly bro and do try to digest before posting again.

I'm not asking TB to stop posting, i'm asking him to stop kissing the arses of Cook, Royle and now fuckin' dickhead referees, Latics fans have had enough of the bullshit coming from the club, he won't change anyones mind on here with constant back him, back them shite!

Thats what i meant by "Butt out"
Are you making up your own language now then Norm ......... well not a new language, but new definitions to existing (well understood) phrases?

If "butt out" means "stop kissing arses", then that's a new one on me ............. unless of course, you meant it as "take their butt out/off your lips"? That's a bit far fetched even for you Norm.......bro.

FFS.

:rolleyes:
 
Moonay, read this slowly bro and do try to digest before posting again.

I'm not asking TB to stop posting, i'm asking him to stop kissing the arses of Cook, Royle and now fuckin' dickhead referees, Latics fans have had enough of the bullshit coming from the club, he won't change anyones mind on here with constant back him, back them shite!

Thats what i meant by "Butt out"
I have never kissed arse in my life, Norm, and I don't intend to start now.

I have the survival of our club at heart and am genuinely asking for a truce in this vendetta against Cook, not because I want him or the Royles to stay, but because I fear the damage that it is doing to our chances of survival, however I could say that you on the other hand are exhibiting the behaviour of someone desperate to see us get relegated by constantly attacking anyone that shows any reason on here.

Are you sure you support the same club as me. Because you sure as hell don't sound like you want us to stay up. A reasonable person would listen to other peoples views and consider their values before dismissing them out of hand. Could it be that your mission in life is to come on here and wreck any proposals that could help the club survive?
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
TBF......the forum seems split into 2 camps / 2 thoughts. Those who want PC out & will not be getting behind him while the other camp who think we should get behind PC & the team altho not necessarily keeping PC at the season's end regardless of our final league position. TB , Moonay n others putting up good points about getting behind the team ( which I think majority of us are) & manager ( which majority of us prob aren't). Whereas others like Norm, Zakky n others will have nothing at all to do with PC n want him gone n gone now. Me, I'm in the camp of wanting him gone but know it won't happen so will with gritted teeth try n get behind the club, temper the criticism in the hope we can somehow scrape survival.........🤔
 

ZAKKY

Vital 1st Team Regular
TBF......the forum seems split into 2 camps / 2 thoughts. Those who want PC out & will not be getting behind him while the other camp who think we should get behind PC & the team altho not necessarily keeping PC at the season's end regardless of our final league position. TB , Moonay n others putting up good points about getting behind the team ( which I think majority of us are) & manager ( which majority of us prob aren't). Whereas others like Norm, Zakky n others will have nothing at all to do with PC n want him gone n gone now. Me, I'm in the camp of wanting him gone but know it won't happen so will with gritted teeth try n get behind the club, temper the criticism in the hope we can somehow scrape survival.........🤔

Yes your right Jock I really do want him gone now as I still think someone else could just about save us. I do accept it's not likely to happen but for the life of me I don't understand why, however I will get behind the team in the desperate hope they can pull.off a miracle inspite of the manager.
 
Are you sure you support the same club as me. Because you sure as hell don't sound like you want us to stay up. A reasonable person would listen to other peoples views and consider their values before dismissing them out of hand. Could it be that your mission in life is to come on here and wreck any proposals that could help the club survive?
I don't know if you could be arsed to read my posts after the Middlesborough game, but i did say i was backing us to stay up.

Perhaps if you read peoples posts instead of just criticising them you might, and thats a big might, be taken seriously on here.
Try reading post 147 on this, a few more on there as well if you can be bothered.

https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/middlesbrough-h.102621/

Thanks!