Surely dead man walking | Page 2 | Vital Football

Surely dead man walking

moonay said:
As I said in the match thread Hampton, Evans scores, and Walton takes that ball and it's (possibly/probably) a different game.
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I get that Mooney but they didn't and given the gulf in commitment, ability and pace between the sides today (and against Birmingham last time out), both teams who we outspent in the summer, we would have lost.
New broom required to re-shape and remotivate ahead of transfer window close.
Right now we are relying on Ipswich, Bolton and Reading not finding any form to the end of the season preventing us from being relegated- again
 
I'll be very surprised if he's still our manager this time tomorrow. It all feels very similar to the end of Roslers time with us. Like Uwe I think he's a better manager than what we're witnessing at present but he's in a hole he doesn't appear to know how to get out of. His post match comments whilst not as bad as Roslers after that Bolton fixture aren't far off. 'For however long i'm Wigan manager', I've never had a run like this, but I've never managed at this level before' for me suggests a touch of defeatism and forcing the clubs hand.

Is it right to sack him? I'm genuinely torn. On the one hand the recruitment over the summer has been atrocious and whilst he's likely not totally responsible he's certainly had a hand in it. His persistence in selecting the same shite week after week is doing him no favours. He's changed from a manager happily to attack and have a go to one morphing into a clone of Joyce. He's no experience at this level and given the current rut it's showing. Today I genuinely thought he'd lost the players, they looked totally bereft of ideas and their body language second half spoke volumes, which I think is what will account for him.

In terms of keeping him I like the bloke, though it shouldnt be an excuse to keep him. Our track record of picking good replacement managers at this level is poor, though again it's a new regime that would be doing the hiring. Reading have replaced theirs and have just been rinsed at home by Swansea. Is there anyone realistically available to replace him which needs to factor into the decision. If it's Unsworth then let's not bother. Stoke and Sheff Wed will likely get their pick before us as well. We're still 4 points shy of the drop and Ipswich and Bolton are both worse than us in my opinion. Unknown how reading will fare and Rotherham I think will fight even though they don't have great quality. Can we finish above those with Cook?

I was on the retain side but said the last two fixtures would determine his future. Sadly he's failed badly in those culminating in today's debacle and regretfully I feel his time as our manager has come to an end.
 
Great post MiW.

But honesty i think he will survive a bit longer yet. I think IEC are still new and wont want to ruffle the fans feathers so early. After how popular Cook was until quite recently i think will give him extra benefit of the doubt and time before they pull the trigger.

I think the fans just seem resigned today (even when it was 0-0 thete seemed no belief) rather than going ballistic - he's losing the crowd but i feel his past achievents are just about keeping enough on side atm to make IEC worry about jumping the gun.

But if we have another game like that the good will he built up will have run out for a lot more folks and the atmosphere will turn noticibly more angry and vocal. At which point when the fans turn it's over and IEC have a much easier call to make.

Personally i think it's a matter of time though now. I just hope we are being proactive behind the scenes and preparing - i suspect Rowett may be available very soon and potentially looking to bounce back quickly.
 
You may be correct about them delaying pulling the trigger. However if it's going to happen it has to happen now - natural break before the next league fixture and the transfer window is now open. Pointless leaving it until we drop further and then bringing in someone new when the window is shut. If he's not gone in the next 48 hours then rejuvenate the squad and leave him in post until season end.
 
I don't want Cook to be sacked but if they are going to make a change they must make it immediately so as to have time to recruit a new manager and his players! If he isn't sacked now then he should be given to the end of the season as sacking after the window is useless!!
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Great post MiW.

But honesty i think he will survive a bit longer yet. I think IEC are still new and wont want to ruffle the fans feathers so early. After how popular Cook was until quite recently i think will give him extra benefit of the doubt and time before they pull the trigger.

I think the fans just seem resigned today (even when it was 0-0 thete seemed no belief) rather than going ballistic - he's losing the crowd but i feel his past achievents are just about keeping enough on side atm to make IEC worry about jumping the gun.

But if we have another game like that the good will he built up will have run out for a lot more folks and the atmosphere will turn noticibly more angry and vocal. At which point when the fans turn it's over and IEC have a much easier call to make.

Personally i think it's a matter of time though now. I just hope we are being proactive behind the scenes and preparing - i suspect Rowett may be available very soon and potentially looking to bounce back quickly.
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but heers the rub king.

what if west brom put out 2nd string agenst us in the cup (at 4th they must have a cheeky eye on automatic place) and we sneek a cheeky win.

will are fans feel apeesed. will they see a false dawn. do iec think that cooks turned a corner. times runing out so if we keep him for the next 2 games we have to keep him til the end and give him the transfer kitty. some yogh choices coming up i think.
 
Made in Wigan said:
I'll be very surprised if he's still our manager this time tomorrow. It all feels very similar to the end of Roslers time with us. Like Uwe I think he's a better manager than what we're witnessing at present but he's in a hole he doesn't appear to know how to get out of. His post match comments whilst not as bad as Roslers after that Bolton fixture aren't far off. 'For however long i'm Wigan manager', I've never had a run like this, but I've never managed at this level before' for me suggests a touch of defeatism and forcing the clubs hand.

Is it right to sack him? I'm genuinely torn. On the one hand the recruitment over the summer has been atrocious and whilst he's likely not totally responsible he's certainly had a hand in it. His persistence in selecting the same shite week after week is doing him no favours. He's changed from a manager happily to attack and have a go to one morphing into a clone of Joyce. He's no experience at this level and given the current rut it's showing. Today I genuinely thought he'd lost the players, they looked totally bereft of ideas and their body language second half spoke volumes, which I think is what will account for him.

In terms of keeping him I like the bloke, though it shouldnt be an excuse to keep him. Our track record of picking good replacement managers at this level is poor, though again it's a new regime that would be doing the hiring. Reading have replaced theirs and have just been rinsed at home by Swansea. Is there anyone realistically available to replace him which needs to factor into the decision. If it's Unsworth then let's not bother. Stoke and Sheff Wed will likely get their pick before us as well. We're still 4 points shy of the drop and Ipswich and Bolton are both worse than us in my opinion. Unknown how reading will fare and Rotherham I think will fight even though they don't have great quality. Can we finish above those with Cook?

I was on the retain side but said the last two fixtures would determine his future. Sadly he's failed badly in those culminating in today's debacle and regretfully I feel his time as our manager has come to an end.
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Good post and agree with a lot of your points, especially regarding his post match interview. Sad to watch really, a beaten down man who knows his number may be up very soon and is trying to defend himself knowing it may be for nothing.

However (Moonay won’t believe I’m saying this) but if you put a gun to my head now and told me to make a decision, sack Cook now or keep him for the season, I’d probably keep him for the season (providing he isn’t given free reign on transfers). The main reason being as I’ve said before, I do not trust the club to appoint anyone better than him. Those with better CVs would not join us meaning we’d be stuck as always with the worst of the litter. Can we finish above three teams this season, it’s going to be very close but if we get Powell back by the end of January when the fixtures turn then I believe we’ve got a good chance. Plus sacking Cook costs a lot of money, he still has a whopping 3 and a half years left on his contract.

Ultimately it’s up to the board whether they wish to stick or twist. But if they twist them they sure as hell better have a replacement in mind that’s an improvement on paper (NOT UNSWORTH). Because if they make the change and we still get relegated then it will do irreparable damage to their short reign at the helm of Wigan and supporters will respond by not renewing their season tickets back in L1 until they have left their posts.

If they choose to stick then the board need to make a statement ASAP. How they do it is up to them, fans forum, happy new year letter, email to STHs, whatever. They need to make it clear to us that they are sticking with Paul Cook for the rest of the season. Then as fans we have to accept that and put all our focus into supporting the team at games. We still have games such as Bolton and Ipswich at home where potential we could make a difference.
 
BrickLatic said:
but heers the rub king.

what if west brom put out 2nd string agenst us in the cup (at 4th they must have a cheeky eye on automatic place) and we sneek a cheeky win.

will are fans feel apeesed. will they see a false dawn. do iec think that cooks turned a corner. times runing out so if we keep him for the next 2 games we have to keep him til the end and give him the transfer kitty. some yogh choices coming up i think.
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The worst of all worlds is for IEC to do nothing.
They, or their royle representatives should either bin him or back him publicly.
If not then we are all in a limbo which is bad for the club, manager, players and fans.
Can you imagine young Mr Royle attending the IEC board meeting and advising them under his watch they'd lost 10mil on their investment by being relegated and that he'd changed nothing in an attempt to avoid this ?
Or have IEC, like I'm sure we all have in the past bought something, immediately regretted it but had to keep it as "sold as seen"
 
C_Latic said:
Good post and agree with a lot of your points, especially regarding his post match interview. Sad to watch really, a beaten down man who knows his number may be up very soon and is trying to defend himself knowing it may be for nothing.

However (Moonay won’t believe I’m saying this) but if you put a gun to my head now and told me to make a decision, sack Cook now or keep him for the season, I’d probably keep him for the season (providing he isn’t given free reign on transfers). The main reason being as I’ve said before, I do not trust the club to appoint anyone better than him. Those with better CVs would not join us meaning we’d be stuck as always with the worst of the litter. Can we finish above three teams this season, it’s going to be very close but if we get Powell back by the end of January when the fixtures turn then I believe we’ve got a good chance. Plus sacking Cook costs a lot of money, he still has a whopping 3 and a half years left on his contract.

Ultimately it’s up to the board whether they wish to stick or twist. But if they twist them they sure as hell better have a replacement in mind that’s an improvement on paper (NOT UNSWORTH). Because if they make the change and we still get relegated then it will do irreparable damage to their short reign at the helm of Wigan and supporters will respond by not renewing their season tickets back in L1 until they have left their posts.

If they choose to stick then the board need to make a statement ASAP. How they do it is up to them, fans forum, happy new year letter, email to STHs, whatever. They need to make it clear to us that they are sticking with Paul Cook for the rest of the season. Then as fans we have to accept that and put all our focus into supporting the team at games. We still have games such as Bolton and Ipswich at home where potential we could make a difference.
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What you said, but in particular your last para. We all lapped up the success last season, including that fairytale cup win, but now we all need to get behind the manager and the players when they need us most.
 
Hampton said:
The worst of all worlds is for IEC to do nothing.
They, or their royle representatives should either bin him or back him publicly.
If not then we are all in a limbo which is bad for the club, manager, players and fans.
Can you imagine young Mr Royle attending the IEC board meeting and advising them under his watch they'd lost 10mil on their investment by being relegated and that he'd changed nothing in an attempt to avoid this ?
Or have IEC, like I'm sure we all have in the past bought something, immediately regretted it but had to keep it as "sold as seen"
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They won't have lost a penny on their investment. The football side is second fiddle to the land and real estate they have purchased for next to nowt really.
 
I'm honestly struggling to think of a better manager right now, if they can really turn it around. Cook is a great guy and does make some good choices but as of late some of the starting 11 and subs are very questionable.

We have young players like Weir, Gelhardt and Lopez in the square, give them some time, it's not like it can get worse!

One thing what really annoys me about Cook is his clear favouritism towards some players. His stubbornness will cost him.

Without that stubbornness there is a top manager in there.

I say give him the window, sign some actual quality and go from there, after changing managers the last 2 championship seasons which ended up being worse I say it won't be a miracle turn around again.

Keep cook, back him. But if results, lineups and the Joyce mentality keeps happening we need a fresh face.

Promise of attacking football? For the opposing team yes.
 
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