Super Kal | Page 4 | Vital Football

Super Kal

Fair enough. Judging from last summers signings it's difficult to know who were his or those who were already decided before he came. In regards the winter ones none have become regulars, although Vaughan brought something to the team, Cole looked decent but was rarely seen/under utilised and Walker was uninspiring. Mixed bag really.
 
Made in Wigan said:
It is also possible to determine with a degree of probability if he will be a good player or not for us - it is why clubs have scouting networks and all other manner of stats available to them before they sign players. This signing seems to based on the fact he played well in a dozen games at two leagues below our current one for our current boss who had previously transfer listed him..
Click to expand...

It is why clubs have scouting networks, and those same professional personnel you reference who have a stronger and better ability to identity a footballer's talents than you do have decided he's worth signing.

How can you possible know the reasoning behind Paul Cook and his staff deciding to sign Naismith? There'll certainly have done more due diligence than you have, no matter how much you may think you have a definitive understanding of the player's current and future ability.

Stats on an internet page provide a very limited scope and insight into a player's physical skills and talents - if stats told the entire story then every couch coach on the internet would a sports scout.

At no point has anyone insisted they know he is the 'real deal' - he may well turn out to be a bad player and no one is saying he won't be. People are simply and quite understandably waiting before drawing conclusions about Naismith since he hasn't played yet instead of pretending to be prophetic and judging him based on games that haven't happened yet - I don't understand why you find that so outrageous.
 
It’s strange how we manage to sign so many apparent duds, on frees of all things, and yet they go on to be key players in title winning sides. Leading to accusations we bought the league from the very clubs we picked said players up from.
 
Well if we're going to go off stats alone..... he has better stats than Massey on Football Manager. Does that make him a better player than Massey? No. But it might.

Until his first game for us we don't know. I'm still waiting to see Walker get a chance, so Naismith may have to wait a bit anyway
 
Lincswiganfan said:
It is why clubs have scouting networks, and those same professional personnel you reference who have a stronger and better ability to identity a footballer's talents than you do have decided he's worth signing.

How can you possible know the reasoning behind Paul Cook and his staff deciding to sign Naismith? There'll certainly have done more due diligence than you have, no matter how much you may think you have a definitive understanding of the player's current and future ability.

Stats on an internet page provide a very limited scope and insight into a player's physical skills and talents - if stats told the entire story then every couch coach on the internet would a sports scout.

At no point has anyone insisted they know he is the 'real deal' - he may well turn out to be a bad player and no one is saying he won't be. People are simply and quite understandably waiting before drawing conclusions about Naismith since he hasn't played yet instead of pretending to be prophetic and judging him based on games that haven't happened yet - I don't understand why you find that so outrageous.
Click to expand...

So you now agree it is possible to determine a players effectiveness. Given some of the complete disasters in recent seasons i wouldn't go shouting from the rooftops about the effectiveness of our scouting network. You are also suggesting the scouting network of others clubs are crap given no one else at this level has ever expressed an interest in signing him. The stats I refer to have been supported by other evidence I've referenced, not least the prevailing opinion of the vast majority of Pompey fans. Of course you may wish to form opinions on blind faith, as is your right, though personally I like to make assessments on more quantifiable evidence and that all indicates he is a nothing signing at Championship level and no improvement on what we have. Why you find that so outrageous I have no idea.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Highly interpretative stats? They are black and white, easily comparable against others we have in that position and are definitive based on a relatively high sample size. Factor in his age, the years played at certain levels, the interest or lack of from other clubs and the overwhelming observations of those who have watched him week in week out allows one to form an opinion from a variety of sources. Yours just seems to be based on the fact we've signed him so automatically with the rose tinted specs on believe he's the real deal without looking into the bigger picture of him or how he'll fit in or improve us.

It is also possible to determine with a degree of probability if he will be a good player or not for us - it is why clubs have scouting networks and all other manner of stats available to them before they sign players. This signing seems to based on the fact he played well in a dozen games at two leagues below our current one for our current boss who had previously transfer listed him. Hoping for the best can sometimes be interpreted as blind faith, but having it it doesn't automatically disqualify others from being fan who prefer to make judgments using a greater amount of evidence.
Click to expand...
Cook’s team selection is highly scientific and based on player stats. To the point players are rested to prevent injury often to the charging of fans if they are in decent form.

The difference being the stats available to Cook are comprehensive and tell the full picture. Not just the basics you can read in the back of the Sunday paper. Cook will know exactly what Naismith is capable of, his potential alongside better quality players, and the personality he brings to the dressing room.

That to me is of far greater importance than the players performances under a manager that failed to reach the play-offs with one of the pre-season favourites.
 
Studds40 said:
Cook’s team selection is highly scientific and based on player stats. To the point players are rested to prevent injury often to the charging of fans if they are in decent form.

The difference being the stats available to Cook are comprehensive and tell the full picture. Not just the basics you can read in the back of the Sunday paper. Cook will know exactly what Naismith is capable of, his potential alongside better quality players, and the personality he brings to the dressing room.

That to me is of far greater importance than the players performances under a manager that failed to reach the play-offs with one of the pre-season favourites.
Click to expand...

If one was new to the sport you would think Cook was managing his own team Liverpool rather than awaiting to make his managerial debut at Championship level judging by some of the comments on here regarding his ability. That's not a dig at him, I'm very happy he's our manager, but a little perspective wouldn't go amiss. As for charging the fans I'm lost one that one, unless you meant chagrin and even then I don't recall him dropping people in form - he often keeps them in despite playing poorly and to the detriment of the team at times.
 
Made in Wigan said:
So you now agree it is possible to determine a players effectiveness. Given some of the complete disasters in recent seasons i wouldn't go shouting from the rooftops about the effectiveness of our scouting network. You are also suggesting the scouting network of others clubs are crap given no one else at this level has ever expressed an interest in signing him. The stats I refer to have been supported by other evidence I've referenced, not least the prevailing opinion of the vast majority of Pompey fans. Of course you may wish to form opinions on blind faith, as is your right, though personally I like to make assessments on more quantifiable evidence and that all indicates he is a nothing signing at Championship level and no improvement on what we have. Why you find that so outrageous I have no idea.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're getting at other than the fact you seem to think you've seen something no one else - including Paul Cook - has and that you're 'enlightened' so I'll just say it again.

You cannot know how good a footballer Kal Naismith will be for Wigan Athletic before he's played a game of football for Wigan Athletic.


You can guess, you can assume with all your internet statistics, but - crucially - you don't KNOW.
 
Lincswiganfan said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at other than the fact you seem to think you've seen something no one else - including Paul Cook - has and that you're 'enlightened' so I'll just say it again.

You cannot know how good a footballer Kal Naismith will be for Wigan Athletic before he's played a game of football for Wigan Athletic.


You can guess, you can assume with all your internet statistics, but - crucially - you don't KNOW.
Click to expand...

Yet I am able to make an informed that he won't be given the evidence at my disposal.

Your argument doesn't hold weight and is back to front - there is only Cook that has seen anything in him given the absence of any interest from any other club at this level and above. Which suggests out of all those other large number of informed scouts and managers out there they agree with my assessment and of those supporters at his former club that he isn't capable of playing at our current level, which makes it a pointless signing.
 
ZAKKY said:
I think your doing Cookie a disservice at the very least if you think he would sign a player that he does not think is up to it. Maybe he sees the lad fitting into our style of play. Personally I think enough has been said about the lad and we should wait to let his feet do the talking
Click to expand...

Also third time Cook signed him so he wont have taken him again if he didn't have faith in him.

Pompey had been in discussions with him for 12 months so it was him choosing to leave them rather than him being binned off. So even though he was apparently not up to much Pompey still believed there was something more to him. A few other L1 clubs were apparently in too.

Let's just wait and see what Cook gets out of him.
 
Last edited:
Made in Wigan said:
If one was new to the sport you would think Cook was managing his own team Liverpool rather than awaiting to make his managerial debut at Championship level judging by some of the comments on here regarding his ability. That's not a dig at him, I'm very happy he's our manager, but a little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
Click to expand...
Of course it’s a dig at him.

The only one showing a lack of perspective is your good self. Your judging a player, and by inference Cook, on stats in the back of a newspaper. Rather than looking at Cook’s managerial track record and his ability to get the best out of his players.

I’ve not read anyone online saying Naismith will do this or that, only they trust the managers judgment, for the role he wants him to play. And neither do we know who was in for him. The very reason we signed him so early was to prevent being gazumped by another team.
 
Stubbs there are no rumours that anyone at this level has ever been in for him. I'm judging a players based on a variety of evidence at my disposal. You're basing an opinion on him on nothing other than the fact our manager has signed him. Every heard of unconscious bias?

For the record Cooks managerial record doesn't include managing at this level. I would suggest it premature to go assessing his ability on judging what players have the attributes for this league. Again it isnt dig at him, but a factual observation, which helps in putting things in perspective.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Yet I am able to make an informed that he won't be given the evidence at my disposal.

Your argument doesn't hold weight and is back to front - there is only Cook that has seen anything in him given the absence of any interest from any other club at this level and above. Which suggests out of all those other large number of informed scouts and managers out there they agree with my assessment and of those supporters at his former club that he isn't capable of playing at our current level, which makes it a pointless signing.
Click to expand...


You've descended into an incoherent and ambiguous diatribe about nothing in particular now and you're completely avoiding anything I say - I give up, so I'll just let my like ratio to yours in this thread do the talking.


You really don't like Kal Naismith do you? Jesus. :LOL:
 
Lincs.......... Bob on
MiW............ Messi-like, give over... Who's said that

His record under Cook is way better than when not under him. Cook has apparently tried to sign him in the last 2 windows.

Let's keep our powder dry and wait till we see him before we flourish our condemnations.
 
Lincswiganfan said:
You've descended into an incoherent and ambiguous diatribe about nothing in particular now and you're completely avoiding anything I say - I give up, so I'll just let my like ratio to yours in this thread do the talking.


You really don't like Kal Naismith do you? Jesus. :LOL:
Click to expand...

Missed the word decision out, in response to your last statement, so how that is avoiding what you say I'm not sure. The rest was also a response to your illogical reasoning which I struggled to make sense out of. As such there is no diatribe, you just won't accept an opinion based on a variety of facts and other information. You base yours on the fact Cook has signed him so he must be good, despite no other manger or scout at this playing level suggesting a club should. Either he's some incredibly gifted talent spotter when compared to his peers, or they are right and effectively he's shite and not suitable for this level of football.

I neither like nor dislike Naismith, my opinion is that he is no improvement on players we currently have at the club so he is a pointless signing. Your likes are no indication you're right, but rather a bias toward the popularity of the manger.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.