Summer transfers rumours, speculation, news | Page 99 | Vital Football

Summer transfers rumours, speculation, news

It’s league one football. At this level most are not good enough to play football out from the back. Might do it twice then third time will lose it. when was the last time we had a centre back that could. bang one or two goals in from a corner Centre back should be good in both boxes If you try a play out from the back at this level it’s suicidal football.
And a total turgid bore. The same boring shite Southgate plays.
 
Each to their own. I reckon we've played some decent stuff under Cook, winning the league, and then the finish to the Covid affected season.
You are right, we actually have played some good football under most managers.
I just find all the sideways and backward passes just for the sake of keeping possession instead of a forward pass to try to create a bit of excitement, a little bit boring to be honest.
 
The Plymouth fans think Watt is terrible and when you see how many they conceded we he played nearly every game it's not hard to see how they came to think that.

But I remember the Fulham fans saying Dan Burn was terrible after a season where their defence also leaked goals for fun - and look how that turned out.

But it sounds like the lad who struggled at Plymouth has wowed in preseason for Newcastle so it's hard to know what to expect. Maybe the lad is good but for whatever reason just didn't suit Plymouth like Burn didn't suit Fulham.

I understand some folks will be concerned signing him, I'm a little uncertain about this one myself - but we've seen so many times players can perform so differently at different clubs so we'll just see how it goes.

Hopefully in 12 months time Plymouth will be thinking 'why didn't he play like that for us?!'.
 
The Plymouth fans think Watt is terrible and when you see how many they conceded we he played nearly every game it's not hard to see how they came to think that.

But I remember the Fulham fans saying Dan Burn was terrible after a season where their defence also leaked goals for fun - and look how that turned out.

But it sounds like the lad who struggled at Plymouth has wowed in preseason for Newcastle so it's hard to know what to expect. Maybe the lad is good but for whatever reason just didn't suit Plymouth like Burn didn't suit Fulham.

I understand some folks will be concerned signing him, I'm a little uncertain about this one myself - but we've seen so many times players can perform so differently at different clubs so we'll just see how it goes.

Hopefully in 12 months time Plymouth will be thinking 'why didn't he play like that for us?!'.
He was obviously a lot better than Scott Wootton if he was playing every week. Maybe his partner at the back didn’t do him any favours and Whatmough will be a better fit. If he plays on Saturday we will see what he is made of as Rotherham look like a big strong team from the brief highlights I saw at the weekend
 
You are right, we actually have played some good football under most managers.
I just find all the sideways and backward passes just for the sake of keeping possession instead of a forward pass to try to create a bit of excitement, a little bit boring to be honest.

That's just it ..... it's not "just for the sake of it" (though I'm sure you know that already).

It's all about player movement, and finding space. if those in front of the defenders don't do it, or don't do it sufficiently well, then the defenders (not wanting to simply hoof the ball up the wing in the hope we'll retain it) have to pass sideways, or backwards, probing, with the intent of creating an opening.

When done well, it's good to watch ........ and I admit, when done poorly, it can be tedious.

Sometimes, we haven't always done it that well ........ but that doesn't necessarily make it the fault of the defenders.
 
That's just it ..... it's not "just for the sake of it" (though I'm sure you know that already).

It's all about player movement, and finding space. if those in front of the defenders don't do it, or don't do it sufficiently well, then the defenders (not wanting to simply hoof the ball up the wing in the hope we'll retain it) have to pass sideways, or backwards, probing, with the intent of creating an opening.

When done well, it's good to watch ........ and I admit, when done poorly, it can be tedious.

Sometimes, we haven't always done it that well ........ but that doesn't necessarily make it the fault of the defenders.

England did it well to good effect during the Euro's , I still found it dull as dishwater.
 
England did it well to good effect during the Euro's , I still found it dull as dishwater.

As I've said, each to their own Sid.

As for England, I think (at times) they retained the ball well, but they weren't always as cutting as they might have liked to be. .....maybe Ukraine excepted.
 
The Plymouth fans think Watt is terrible and when you see how many they conceded we he played nearly every game it's not hard to see how they came to think that.

But I remember the Fulham fans saying Dan Burn was terrible after a season where their defence also leaked goals for fun - and look how that turned out.

But it sounds like the lad who struggled at Plymouth has wowed in preseason for Newcastle so it's hard to know what to expect. Maybe the lad is good but for whatever reason just didn't suit Plymouth like Burn didn't suit Fulham.

I understand some folks will be concerned signing him, I'm a little uncertain about this one myself - but we've seen so many times players can perform so differently at different clubs so we'll just see how it goes.

Hopefully in 12 months time Plymouth will be thinking 'why didn't he play like that for us?!'.
Well hopefully if we decide to start playing proper football rather than this possession passing nonsense we may be spending more time at the other end of the field and keep the pressure off the defence.
I raise a glass to the flat cap, best mild, whippet, ten woodpine, wingers, two up top, shots on target and entertainment.
 
Some players can play out of the back. Some can’t. Steve Bruce made Bramble into a good centre back. By telling him not to try and play out. All I’m saying is not many at league one level can. On our first rise up the leagues. Jason De Vos Was a good no nonsense centre back Could do with one like him now. But that’s my thoughts.
We're in complete agreement John. Some can, some can't.

If the manager wants to play a style where he wants his defenders to do that, then he has to have the right players. The level doesn't really matter that much. Everything's relative.
 
I agree that possession for possessions sake football is boring and can be very ineffective. I also agree that excessively trying to play the ball out under high pressure can be suicidal. We've certainly seen our fair share of both over the years.

But I don't think anyone when they talk about wanting to play out of defence is aiming to play like that - there is the happy medium.

In the modern game teams generally press higher and if you're centre halves are uncomfortable on the ball you end up just lumping it long, bypass midfield and constantly losing possession.

To get the the ball to the midfielders and start attacks it's much easier if your defenders are composed enough to carry the ball and pick a pass if they have the space and aren't panicked into mistakes or blind long balls at the first sign of pressure.

While defending is clearly the priority it's increasingly hard for centre halves to just defend and not get involved in the play so their passing ability is now something managers are looking at.

I don't think it's ever a bad thing if the centre halves can play a bit.
 
Noel ward could play a bit of football. But also head a ball. As far as some can kick it.
Blast from the past there, i remember Noel very well he was part time then, we both worked at Leverton Caterpillar dealer at Landgate Bryn back in the early 80‘s or was it late 70’s great lad and footballer shame his career ended prematurely.
 
England did it well to good effect during the Euro's , I still found it dull as dishwater.

England were very negative though, it wasnt the defenders playing the ball that was the issue but the reluctance to be positive once the ball was played into midfield.
 
England were very negative though, it wasnt the defenders playing the ball that was the issue but the reluctance to be positive once the ball was played into midfield.
England had that many defenders there was no one in midfield to pass to !
Other than against the Dog & Duck (Ukraine) 10 mins against Croatia and 2 mins in the final it was negative, dull, defensive, anti-entertainment football.
 
Football has evolved more in the past 10 years than ever before. If you choose to play with a keeper and 3 ridged zonal positions then you will be destroyed. Player movement is crucial to building support and that means having 10 outfield players that are comfortable in creating an option for the man with the ball. If you limit yourself to only 2 centre mids who can play, 2 wingers who can sprint etc then you'll find yourself outnumbered and permanently on the back foot. A lot of our problems under Cook was Morsy was picking the ball up from our defenders on the edge of our box which allowed the opposition to push up. We then had to break down their entire team across the full length of the pitch. Martinez was much more successful because the defenders brought it half way and allowed us to attack from there.

When I hear moaning about slow build up I'm always reminded of the groans in the cup semi when Jordi just delayed his pass by a second....the football brain of that man was somewhat surprisingly greater than those in the stands 🤔
 
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Well hopefully if we decide to start playing proper football rather than this possession passing nonsense we may be spending more time at the other end of the field and keep the pressure off the defence.
I raise a glass to the flat cap, best mild, whippet, ten woodpine, wingers, two up top, shots on target and entertainment.

When you say proper football I assume you aren't talking about long balling it constantly and are talking about trying to play exciting attacking football.

But passing out from the back with 1 up front and keeping possession has produced some of the most exciting and attacking football we've ever seen over the years. In contrast some of the worst football we've watched in recent years was not possession based and 4-4-2. That's not to say either system can't be played effectively but the thing that made those good runs work and the bad ones fail was the tempo, movement and aggression more than the formation and possession stats.

As Moonay mentioned it's all about how you play the system that makes it tedious or exciting rather than the system itself.