Summer squad changes

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Worth a thread on its own now we are entering the summer transfer period and apart from the bit by bit clearing of Lionel Road not much else will be going on.

Interesting signing from Scotland for the B Team as Archibald is supposed to be a very rated young player, trouble is being rated in Scotland does not necessarily mean much so we shall see, he could make an appearance next Monday maybe.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Did we sign the Danish defender does anyone know? The worriers are already waving goodbye to Jota & Harlee. Chill people, we're in good hands & will do the best by everyone.
 

collioure_bee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
I personally can't see Jota leaving. He loves it here and is adored. He only recently had a bad experience at another club, not being picked, having bad games and not so popular with fans, and he couldn't wait to get back.
There are two I want to see the back of, one would free up a massive wage that gets paid to someone to warm the bench, and with the likes of Josh, McLeod etc coming back, Sawyers improving weekly there will be no need for someone who may see the odd decent pass but over all adds nothing to the squad or team, and is pretty much invisible for the majority of games.
Would like to see a strong striker brought in, someone to work alongside Vibe, who for all his faults, has a knack of scoring an acceptable amount of goals, just wish he was not so bloody lightweight or prone to go missing.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Think it may depend on what bids come in for our players in terms of new players in as ideally I am sure the management would want to keep this squad together. If we can keep our prized assets like Woods, Jota and Bentley then we are in a strong position. Interesting one is Dean as with a year left on his contract if he does not sign then I assume he will be sold.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
So first signing , another Dane! seems he is a tall and experience right back who can play further up the field if necessary. Does this mean Colin is on his way?
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
2 good signings for me, competition needed for Bentley who is decent but needs pushing. I fear the worst with Maxine but we'll see, I think BFC are trying to keep him which is all I can ask.
 

condorman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
I think Colin will go. I think he wants to go and he has a buy out clause. I think the article with him showing "surprise" was a load of bollocks tbh. Completely agree that he's a great player but probably not irreplaceable

I suspect we will move on a couple more too - either through our own choosing or because someone has bid an awful lot of money. We have to be open to this, and trust the club to replace players as we have done so well over recent times

Glad to see Shaibu promoted to the first team squad. hes raw but looks like a menace. Presumably Bonham will go out on loan now we have the other keeper, which also makes perfect sense.

 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Was given a stat on Colin last week which was that he's been unavailable through injury 29 times in his 2 seasons. Great player but if the info is solid our stats people will be aware & have this in mind re his situation.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Mostly B team signings at the moment but some interesting ones. It is hard to know how good these players are and whether they are likely to be first team contenders but we do seem to be signing up a lot of highly rated young Scottish talent.

We are clearly one of the places to be for up and coming players.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Did well to manage Gogias situation & ultimately turn a profit on him. Fair to say our summer 2015 signings didn't work out but credit to BFC for the way players & our interests have been handed. 1st July today, so I'd expect things to start moving now, glad we've strengthened the GK position & Dalsgsrd sounds useful. All eyes on a striker & ball playing enforcer in CM. I've seen some rumblings about Woods not starting pre season & clubs like Villa sniffing around.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Both DS and Josh in their interviews have mentioned new players coming in so would expect some transfer news quite soon, probably Monday I would guess.
 

Beefeater

Vital Squad Member
#2
RebelBee - 1/7/2017 09:25

Did well to manage Gogias situation & ultimately turn a profit on him. Fair to say our summer 2015 signings didn't work out but credit to BFC for the way players & our interests have been handed. 1st July today, so I'd expect things to start moving now, glad we've strengthened the GK position & Dalsgsrd sounds useful. All eyes on a striker & ball playing enforcer in CM. I've seen some rumblings about Woods not starting pre season & clubs like Villa sniffing around.
Colin, Woods, Vibe, and Barbet all worked out and MacEachran and Bjelland to a point if you ignore injuries. The ones that don't work out do tend to stand out though.
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
Don't know what kind of season we will have, but the PR is looking good. Check this out -
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718752-brentfords-moneyball-way-to-beat-football-teams-with-huge-budgets
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Another very interesting signing done with striker Neal Maupy joining us last night. Apparently we fought off strong last minute interest from BHA to get him. That's 4 quality additions this window, strengthening all parts of our team, and all at modest fees in relation to others in the division. Mokotjo is a superb acquisition btw. Have to say how impressed I've been with the way we do our thing & that's some admission given my feelings 2+ years ago. Fortunately we have smart people running the club & ive never felt more positive going into a new season. We just need all our fantastic supporters to do their bit to back the club in whatever ways they can.

Hope we don't lose anyone but even if we do I'm confident we'll be stronger as a result.

Coyr
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Cracking signings it seems, young and talented with huge potential. They don't always work out but no reason not to expect that we have made some real quality signings. I genuinely feel that we can make a crack at promotion with or without Jota (obviously better with) and that is not just the usual pre season optimism.

We have developed a wide reputation as a place for young talented players to come and develop the next stage of their career.

Some will just follow the money but wiser ones will see that a good and stable behind the scenes set up, quality coaching and real game time in a team that plays attractive technical football is the best move for their longer term career.

Little old Brentford we no longer are it seems
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
Well in football you never know, but I have to hold my hand up and admit that my concerns about the DoFs and all the associated management consultancy bullsh*t may have been misplaced.
 

Beefeater

Vital Squad Member
#2
Unfortunately I still expect some outgoings. Take a look at our midfield options:
Jota, Canos, Jozefzoon, Clarke; MacEachran, Sawyers, MacLeod, Judge; Mokotjoe, Woods, Yennaris

That's 11 players fighting for 5 places. Letting Gogia go and sending KK out on loan makes sense but even so, I'm not sure you can keep all of them happy.

Agreed, two of them are injured.

If Colin goes, as has been mooted, then Clarke becomes back up for Daalsgard and Jota - so not a potential loan out for him as some have suggested. I rate him anyway, as I though he played very well towards the end of the season.

I'm hoping Mokotjoe is the answer to our defensive frailties. Our defenders are good enough but as a team we let in too many goals because, I believe we've not had a quality defensive midfielder.

It's all looking very good at the moment!
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
If we have 11 players for 5 places, you can reckon on at least 2 or 3 being injured at any one time, so along with a couple of subs, and giving the odd rest from mid-week games, it looks about right to me.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
I wonder how much we will see of Judge and if he will return to his former level. Maybe the club have hedged their bets on him for this season at least and it is really 5 out of 10. You could say the same for MacLeod to an extent although he seems more likely to be fit by early season.

See we have just announced the signing of Watkins which must pretty much complete our signings now unless others leave?
 

Beefeater

Vital Squad Member
#2
Spanish Bee - 18/7/2017 13:01

If we have 11 players for 5 places, you can reckon on at least 2 or 3 being injured at any one time, so along with a couple of subs, and giving the odd rest from mid-week games, it looks about right to me.
I don't think you can keep [12 now - assuming Watkins is a midfielder] first teamers happy that way. The B team are meant to sit on the bench when we have a load of injuries, otherwise we block their path and no one wants another Alfie Mawson situation.

I'm sure some will go. I think the reason we are getting heavy with Jota's agent is that if he goes we have a replacement ready - Marcondes, maybe? But any central midfielders going are unlikely to be replaced now.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Interesting week with 2 more players joining, a decent work out at Oxford, a very impressive B team win at Benfica (yep Benfica!), & today's game v Saints to come. Like others here I cannot believe we'll be able to hang on to everyone & the likes of Dean, Colin, Vibe, Woods & of course Jota look vulnerable. My guess is that those with contract issues will not be allowed to sit it out & we've already got cover sorted. It must be really challenging for the recruitment team to manage these long windows, we seem to have a plan & are executing it very well, to be fair it hasn't always been this way & everyone has upped their game I feel. Spanish you & I were both critical 2 summers back, the evidence since suggests in part we were wrong, but I do feel that our strategy has evolved & is being implemented more effectively - perhaps off the back of the more reasonable feedback from fans. Also fair to point out that in the 2 seasons since Warbs & the restructuring we've finished in 9th / 10th, not bad at all but not progression on our 5th place that 1st year in the division. Also right to point out that we've acquired talent & potential, so far that's all & any thoughts of us running away with the league are way off the mark, funny how we're world beaters or no hopers with some fans, when in reality we're generally neither. The talent available to DS does now put him under scrutiny, clearly a good man, a good coach - now can he keep his golden squad happy & mount a serious challenge? We're going to have to score plenty, concede a lot less & make GP a fortress to do so. We also have to show progression to the B team boys, there is real talent there & a couple need to get an opportunity to step up, not going to be easy now. Sadly I think Jota will leave us, he is special but if he won't take up our offer & his advisors want to force a move we have to deal with it & compensate by strengthening the whole squad rather than try to replace such a special player. Loads to feel good about & the club is in great shape. I feel the support needs to step up too, we should be filling GP & growing our base further. Our support is great but with under 6k ST holders & a 10.5k average you can't really complain about our model or when stars are sold. I hope everyone does what they can to back BFC more, in any small way they can. Finally a quick thought for Alan Judge, currently in the US building up his conditioning with specialists there, you can follow this via the twitter feed from Neil Greig (our own miracle man) - inspired stuff it really is. Come back strong & positive Alan! Coyr
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
Totally agree with all of this Rebel. The ideas have been there but the implementation hasn’t. I think that what pleases me most is that now we are leaders, not victims. People look at us differently and we have gained respect or in some cases more hatred, which is a sign of respect. You can see from their remarks that talented players see us as a good place to develop. You can criticise the way it was done, but scrapping the academy and starting the ‘B’ team is a very clever idea.

None of us know how the season will pan out, probably somewhere in the top half, but the potential is about as good as I have ever seen it. We will probably make more mistakes and a good few things won't work out, but at least we are the ones with the ideas.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Our credibility does seem to have gone up amongst more informed commentators, sadly people earning good money in the game know absolutely nothing about our methods or even players / coaches at this level. The best form of flattery comes from our rivals who often jump on our deals late in the process-trying to hijack them.

Anyway my 1st look at the new boys on Sat in a very competitive work out against decent opponents. Mokotjo looks the part in midfield, diffferent to anyone else in the squad. Watkins is a big powerful runner & Maupay one of those annoying forwards who never gives defenders time. Dalsgsard looks s great addition, quick, strong, direct - too good to sit on the bench behind Colin, so that's a plus & a minus I guess. The only area of concern remains sloppy goals conceded, only a warm up but the bad habits remain.

A new week brings new rumours about Jota, Dean & Woods to West Ham, Wednesday & Sunderland respectively. For sure we'll be saying goodbye to one or two. Let's see what the week brings.

Be nice to hear from a few of the lapsed regulars on here now that football is back. Come on chaps let us know you're still out there!
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Could be one of many Roman, good question. Depends on game time assuming everyone stays (which I doubt). Jota, Canos, Vibe, Maupay, Watkins, all contenders. Jota if he stays - otherwise Vibe.

Celta Vigo later, interesting game. Coyr!
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Final changes it seems, Dean gone (to Brum of all places) and maybe Jota as well although not to Fulham by all accounts.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Shame about Harlee but hardly a shock & all he's done is upped his salary not his prospects. In truth we've not been great defensively for a very long time, he was part of that & maybe it's time for a new approach. As for Jota, well I've expected him to go all summer since not accepting a new deal, I'm not comfortable if he moves to FFC but if we get £8M for a player we never expected to see again then I can cope. We had a decent window with incomings, time for them to gel & get us moving up the table.

Hate this poxy window, disgrace it going on so long!
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Jota to Birmingham according to "Arry" unless there is a late bid. Surprised ( and disappointed) at that as though he could do better, not sure how that will work out for him in that environment.
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
This is just a reality check. If a player wants to go then the club hasn't much choice, especially if they are near the end of their contract. If somebody offered me three times my current salary with maybe 6 - 8 years of my career left, it wouldn't be a difficult decision. We have signed some good players too. Time to get over it and move on. It's the FA who have screwed up the system, not Brentford.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Strange to lose three players in one go to one club but maybe Birmingham the only ones to be willing to meet our asking prices. Hey Ho we move on.
 

The Bolton Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
Spanish Bee is 100% correct :it is the FA that has screwed the system. Football has become a mirror for the UK under the Tories, with the rich getting richer and the rest going to the wall.
We have lost three quality players because we can't afford to pay them anything near the money that Birmingham (amongst others) can. I don't blame the players, if I had been offered a 300% pay rise when I was working, I would have taken it. I don't blame the club, we can't risk the future of the Club.
No the blame lies with the FA who inflicted the Premiership and all the subsequent financial inequalities on football
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Wise enough words from you guys above, pragmatism rules at BFC and when you look at each departure the case is clear for what's happened. Plenty of sensible bees have told me HD was offered £400 pw more than his previous deal at GP, forme the club wanted him gone. Jota was allegedly after the money & had an aggressive representative, FFC £35k pw, Brum going to £40k pw. And Colin who can be injury prone also wanted a move. So we've turned that into arguably £12M with potential for add ons, sure it's what we do, and tbf we did good business early. What has upset people is the almost January sale like way it went down on Thurs, and the club involved. Arry has dissed BFC ever since the MW episode & yet here he is benefiting from our player scouting & development. Brum are a divisional rival & we've made them stronger, hardly upwards progression for our stars - just more money!

I can't apologise for some of my emotions this week, my love for BFC is stronger than ever but now we're in the big leagues my love for the people's game diminishes. Some of the stick thrown at our owner this week is out of order, but again BFC fluff the PR & have set expectations too highly.

Our 2 Danes played v well in a 4-0 win vs Poland last night, they are not useless as some st GP suggest. Time for DS & all the players to gel together & get some points, we'll be ok although now seem to be competing to top a mini league of have nots relative to the lunatics in the midlands, Putney & beyond.

So much to discuss-get writing on here people, it's never dull!
 

Beefeater

Vital Squad Member
#2
This Chinese money is ruining the game isn't it. Birmingham FFS! Jota should be in the Premiership or at a club with realistic ambitions of getting there very soon. A Hull when Moses went there or a Burnley when Gray went, perhaps Boro this year [I've just realised all those three had just come down from the prem with their parachutes open].

I've given up on how FFP works - I'm guessing Brum are just going to spend what they want a bugger the repercussions [which they can afford but we can't].

Some very astute observations above. I'm not bothered about Harlee going and the best he could hope for is the better pay he's getting now. Colin had a release clause [€3.5m apparently] so, like Moses, there was very little we could do to keep him without offering a massive pay rise which we couldn't afford. Our DoFs were sensible and got his replacement in early.

There are still some fabulous players at the club and we can all get excited by Canos, Watkins, Sawyers and Maupay and plenty of other youngsters we've got on our books.

Offers for Woods, Bentley and Egan that were turned down will give you an idea of who is next out of the door but a stonking season for any of the above could see very big bids come in this time next year.

This is how we operate and as long as the DoFs can find the next bargain we'll be fine. Whether we can ever get the stars to align enough for a proper push at the premiership I don't know. It's been done before but with more and more teams with parachute payments and Chinese money it feels like it's getting harder and harder.
 

Kentbee

Vital Reserves Team
#2
Some question marks I gather over this Chinese investments generally and whether the Chinese bubble is going to burst, too technical for me but something about Chinese banks and their borrowing strategies. If so some of these Chinese funded clubs like BCFC could be vulnerable especially if they are paying premiership wages and don't get up.
 

collioure_bee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
It's the constant lying to the fans I am getting pissed off with. "We'll not sell to a Championship club" they said about players previously and then did. "We'll have a twenty thousand all singing, all dancing stadium with view to extend if needed" they said, now it's seventeen minus three thousand corporates, minus away fans, lock and leave...."Won't go to Championship club..." heard that one before.....then THREE of our better players go to one. A club who've finished below us in the last three years. I seem to remember "We're not a selling club anymore, no need for players to go.." Doesn't seem to be that way to me. There's always a reason or excuse blaming outside influences like FFP (not that anyone seems to get too hurt for breaking that rule, don't even know why it exists, it only hurts the smaller clu....oh yeaah,that's why).

If our newest Dane is not as bad as some say, it's about time he started showing it in a Brentford shirt from previous showing. Our defence has been our main problem and we didn't fight to keep two of our best and are now lumbered with one too easy to beat and often out of position, and one who has the turning circle of an artic, is far too slow and always drops us in it at least once a match, normally to be saved by Bentley. I am more bothered about them leaving than Jota to be honest. We could have kept one if we'd tried just a bit harder instead of undervaluing him.

I really think Clarke can replace Jota quite easily, not as skilful and first touch not so good but quicker, not so reliant on one foot and his pace scares the hell out of defences. I think he actually has more to his game.

I can understand the players needing to move, end of contracts so need to get something in for them, but DON'T lie to me. Be upfront and say "We'll sell to whoever comes up with the money" But we do look, from the outside, to be a club that will sell, sell our best and then start again just as it's beginning to click and we are back to square one. If we really do want to go up, we need more than seventeen thousand seats minus corporates and we need to do everything we can to keep our better players.

It's funny, but look at the Facebook posts. There is a kind of split, not right down the middle but a good split that makes the under thirties keep telling us to "stop complaining, be thankful where we are, blah blah" and the older ones who've seen it all before, heard all the promises for thirty or forty years plus and are getting sick of seeing it all again.

I was really positive despite results. Last week knocked me back a bit. For us to get started now and get going, a couple of our defenders need to step up now and improve. At the rate they were leaving I was being kept awake by nightmares of seeing that number seventeen shirt wandering aimlessly around the pitch again. NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
Collioure, I think you might have missed the signs of change. I am in my seventies and for years and years have seen what was the Brentford way. People only had to wave a few notes under the club’s nose and the player was gone, either to be replaced by a donkey or not replaced at all.

The signs are pretty clear, the club had a high expectation that these three were going and the replacements were in early. On this site I have taken part in a debate on “we’ve got too many midfielders” and seen all the “why have we got four centre halves?” According to Beesotted Colin had sold his house.

By buying early we have got the ones we wanted, and at a price we are comfortable with and then it was just a question of waiting for the best offer for the ones who were going. Some of the new ones we had never heard of (Maupay) and others we have got despite competition (Watkins).

The fact that the three went on the last day shows that we hung on for the best price. I was desperate for Jota not to go. I chatted to him in Portugal at the Marinus pre-season, I was in the Basque Country when he went to Eibar, he was from almost the same town as where I was born and spent a lot of my childhood (Vigo) and Celta is my Spanish team, and he is one of the best I have seen in a Brentford shirt. He’s gone, move on. The club did a great piece of business through making him sign a one year extension before he went to Spain, and I don’t know who he got to write his farewell message this time, but he made a right pig’s ear of it. I have no more than a passing interest in his career anymore but remember what he did to Bidwell and Fulham. Birmingham City, who cares? At least it wasn’t Fulham.

I don’t think we are going to charge into the Premiership, but neither are we heading for League 1. But things really have changed, the signs are there. We aren’t Brentford the victims anymore, we plan and analyse what to do and we punch above our weight.

We need to get behind the team, they are a good team with good players and the past is gone.
 

Beefeater

Vital Squad Member
#2
I thought it was Jota that said he wouldn't go to a Championship side rather than us. In fact it's exactly what Hogan said too. I suppose we could have taken much less for him to entice a prem team and maybe Jota would have accepted lower wages to play in the prem [or sit on the bench]. It seems no one was willing to take the gamble.

£6.5m or nothing in a few months time. At least we held out for some decent money.

 

collioure_bee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
We said it too, Beefy. We said it too.

Spanish, Maupay is in my opinion the most exciting prospect as a striker I can remember having. He is a pain in the arse to opponents, maybe a bit too easily wound up as Ipswich sussed, but he will be quality and I fear the next one to be disrupted by higher wage offers and better contracts etc.....I did also say I wasn't as worried about Jota going as the others. We have an excess of talent there and I did say why I felt Josh might just be a better option. One we'd never have noticed. I felt Jota was a great player for us, up with the best but could also see the obvious weaknesses.

I just don't like the constant lies. And we are getting fed constant lies.
 

Spanish Bee

Vital Youth Team
#2
I totally understand your feeling negative about what is going on, but I think that to accuse the club of lying is a little bit strong. Goodness knows the communications could be improved both in terms of quantity and content. It is one of the weakest aspects of MB's project. Basically it's the difference between lying and bullsh*tting.

A lie is when you say something that isn't true with a deliberate intention to mislead. I think that they must have thought the original stadium plan was the right one, but got cold feet in the light of day. This is sensible but as usual it was done really badly and they have cut out a lot of the things that were going to make the stadium special. If they had said, we are very concerned about the risks and then gone into some kind of consultation process with Bias to get people on board it wouldn't have been so bad. I don't think MB is used to "relationship marketing" in his business. It makes his decision making easier but riskier because he is in danger of pi**ing of his customers.

It is stupid to say "we won't sell him to a championship club". If they had said "We will do everything we can not to sell him to a championship club" it would have been smarter. If I say "I am going to win the 100 metres" and I come second I look stupid. You can't say I am lying, just bullsh*tting. If I say "I am going to do everything I can to win the 100 metres" and I come second you just say bad luck. Do better next time.
 

RebelBee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
I don't mind the club being ambitious in its objectives but once again we have seen the pronouncements of RA biting him & us in the arse. Premier league in 3 years anyone? How about stronger after each window? He's there taking credit at the early summer signings, then MIA when things are more difficult, leaving the amiable Phil Giles to do the reality check. I'm coming round to the logic in what had to be done last week, but it is a big reset for me, if Leicester city proved that you could dare to dream as a fan, last Thursday was the complete opposite. Premier league 2 has arrived in all but name, and our expectations have been reset with it. Not all BFC's doing at all, but a little of the magic was lost last week. I'll still be there though-love the bees but not so much the charade that is modern football.
 

collioure_bee

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
I can't say anymore. I know why I feel like I do, and I know I am justified in feeling it. But they lied to us. Not too strong. Just honest. They bare faced lied. And they knew it. How long do they think they will continue to pull the wool over our eyes? Many have said this is it for them. I'm not sure I'll be too interested if we go to a new ground with nothing much more to offer after all the promises and reasons we were given. It might just be it for me.

Just tell me the truth, don't dress it up in "must leave Griffin Park for all singing all dancing stadium (not ground) that will cater for our needs and have room to expand" and then give us a place not much better than Walsall or Northampton (as many of us suspected way back), don't tell me you'll not sell here or there.
Just be upfront. We'll sell to whoever pays the right money.....

Like I say, I can't say anymore.