Steve Bruce | Vital Football

Steve Bruce

ZAKKY

ZAKKY

Vital Football Hero
As much as I like Steve Bruce for what he did for us he has a very bad habit of jumping ship when the cash dries up. He has done it numerous times in his career and it seems he wont hack it without a big checkbook.

Any Views ?




If the club’s Chinese owner Tony Xia decides not to sack the 57-year-old, sources close to the club say Bruce could be ready to walk out of his own accord.

Villa missed out on promotion back to the Premier League last month when they lost the play-off final against Fulham.

Now the club is teetering on the brink of administration as the full impact of missing out on the big money bites.

Villa are in grave danger of going into administration and Bruce knows his squad is about to disintegrate before his eyes.

Former England star John Terry has already gone and they could be helpless to stave off bids for star players Jack Grealish and James Chester.
 
I doubt he will stay if Villa are going to be run on a shoestring budget, and I don’t blame him. He will still want to manage a Premier League team and that won’t be Villa.
 
Agree with you. Left Latics when the cash dried up. For all he achieved with us, he didn't appear to know how to stop the rot in the 2nd half of his final season when the squad started to break up. We were in freefall.
 
Hardly freefall, we had secured our PL status by march and after that we went downhill. Once we had achieved our aim of survival we didn't seem to be able to keep up the momentum.
But yes, once he didn't get the money he wanted (Tesco v Harrods) he lost all interest. You could tell by his demeanour on the final home game that he had lost interest, and low and behold days later he had jumped ship for Sunderland- Look how well that went
 
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Bruce was a very good manager for us. Let's be honest he over achieved during his tenure as our premier league manager. Sadly his team was broken up during the winter window, especially with the Palacios sale and I guess that must have been very demoralising, especially faced with the prospect of having to build another team with the knowledge anyone of worth would also likely be sold. I can understand why he sought a different challenge elsewhere, being able to build and grow a team without the likelihood of seeing it sold every six months. We ended up with Bob who was fully motivated to prove himself and have memories to last us a lifetime so things worked out anyway.

Some of our supporters still have a downer on him now. I recall a discussion a few back when we were in the market for a new manager, the number of posters who didn't want him back because he'd previously left to further his career was quite high. For me it was cutting off your nose to spite your face. Football is a transient business and good managers are worth their weight in gold. Personally I'd have him back here in an instant if we had a vacancy.
 
Bruce was an excellent manager for us & that team he had during the first half of his full season was the best we ever had.

Like MIW, I don't blame Bruce one bit for becoming demoralised & jumping ship. He had a team genuinely capable of maintaining a challenge for a European spot through it's league position.
He's looking to keep the squad together & possibly even strengthen it. He's asked at a press conference whether Latics will sell Heskey as there's only 6 months left on his contracts & he says he'd be mad to coz even if he didn't stay on at the end of his contract, what he brought to the team & the extra points etc.. that would bring would mean that for the small fee we'd get it wasn't worth it.
The very next day, his employer turns round and says he makes the decisions who goes & who stays & that Heskey will be sold if the right offer comes in as he isn't going to lose him for nothing in the summer. He then goes on to say that the entire squad is available if the right offers come in and, as we've achieved our aim (staying up) it's time to look at who we can get the money to build a squad capable of staying up next season i.e. by selling players & buying cheaper.
Within a matter of days, Heskey's gone, Palacios is gone, Kilbane's gone & only Valencia refusing to join a Spanish team (I'm convinced it was Real Madrid but I could be wrong) so he could join United in the summer, he'd have been gone as well. Other's went too & he was allowed a fraction of that transfer money to spend on replacements.
Before the window closed Whelan also went on to say that the club was now going to start only spending what it brought in.

Now I agree that for the long term future of the club what Whelan did was probably the right thing, but I never agreed on the timing of it. From challenging for Europe to seeing his squad being sold off & told his only aim is to stay up. It wasn't what he'd been sold by Whelan on joining & it had a detrimental impact on Bruce & the team as they knew it was job done for the owner - just like when Jewell said the same thing once we'd reached 40 points in that first season in the top flight
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
Bruce was an excellent manager for us & that team he had during the first half of his full season was the best we ever had.

Like MIW, I don't blame Bruce one bit for becoming demoralised & jumping ship. He had a team genuinely capable of maintaining a challenge for a European spot through it's league position.
He's looking to keep the squad together & possibly even strengthen it. He's asked at a press conference whether Latics will sell Heskey as there's only 6 months left on his contracts & he says he'd be mad to coz even if he didn't stay on at the end of his contract, what he brought to the team & the extra points etc.. that would bring would mean that for the small fee we'd get it wasn't worth it.
The very next day, his employer turns round and says he makes the decisions who goes & who stays & that Heskey will be sold if the right offer comes in as he isn't going to lose him for nothing in the summer. He then goes on to say that the entire squad is available if the right offers come in and, as we've achieved our aim (staying up) it's time to look at who we can get the money to build a squad capable of staying up next season i.e. by selling players & buying cheaper.
Within a matter of days, Heskey's gone, Palacios is gone, Kilbane's gone & only Valencia refusing to join a Spanish team (I'm convinced it was Real Madrid but I could be wrong) so he could join United in the summer, he'd have been gone as well. Other's went too & he was allowed a fraction of that transfer money to spend on replacements.
Before the window closed Whelan also went on to say that the club was now going to start only spending what it brought in.

Now I agree that for the long term future of the club what Whelan did was probably the right thing, but I never agreed on the timing of it. From challenging for Europe to seeing his squad being sold off & told his only aim is to stay up. It wasn't what he'd been sold by Whelan on joining & it had a detrimental impact on Bruce & the team as they knew it was job done for the owner - just like when Jewell said the same thing once we'd reached 40 points in that first season in the top flight
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I think your rather missing the point of the original post-
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As much as I like Steve Bruce for what he did for us he has a very bad habit of jumping ship when the cash dries up. He has done it numerous times in his career and it seems he wont hack it without a big checkbook.
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It was not a sleight on his capabilities here or anywhere else he just jumps ship when he has no cash to spend
 
Perhaps zakky he views it that if clubs won't match his ambitions he'll seek one that will?

As we know a managers job is precarious. Do poorly and fans clamour to get them out. Do well and move onto a better job then they're a judas. Fans obviously want what's best for their club but sometimes they are too myopic in their outlook and don't realise for managers and players it's a job and career, so they look to maximise their opportunities and income earning potential.
 
If I could like Bongsman’s post 100 times I would. Not only did he take a squad that were relegation certainties under Hutchings and accumulate enough points to keep us safe even before the last day. He then assembled as said above the best team we’ve ever seen at the club and had us challenging for Europe like what Burnley did last season. Then Zaki had his meltdown and more importantly Dave Whelan sold Heskey and Palacios from under his nose. Bruce understandably lost all motivation knowing our chances of Europe had gone and we already had more than enough points to stay up, hence the second half season slump. Dave Whelan wasn’t willing to match his ambitions to take us to the next level, Sunderland a much bigger club were willing to do so and off he went. Can’t praise Bruce enough for his work here. Top manager and a top bloke and I’ll never hold his own personal ambition against him like some fans.
 
Fair points. It was a bit upsetting when he left. Looking back, I don't blame him. He took Cattermole and Bramble from us who at time were solid players but look at them now. Bruce will manage in the prem again.
 
Kenny, you say "hardly freefall". But in a results sense it was exactly that. 3 wins from 18 games, having won 9 of the first 20.

As brilliant as his first season was with us, and as great as we were up to Christmas, we were dreadful when we started to lose players (Palacios and Heskey were big losses) and we looked in need of some new ideas and fresh blood for the next season.

Bruce looked around and didn't fancy the rebuild job on a limited budget, much like he's probably doing now. No hard feelings. He did what was required to keep us up and played a big part in our prem years. But it was freefall from late Jan that year ;)
 
Steve Bruce is a very good manager in many ways and arguably the best manager we ever had, but it did seem like when Palacios was sold against his wishes he basically got fed up, downed tools and was counting the days until the summer to jump ship. Which was very disapointing as Palacios wasn't actually playing that well at the time, we still had a great side and had added Zog to the mix - i understood his frustration but i think he didn't do himself justice in those final 4 months or so after the best 12 months you could ask for previously. We were well on track for maybe UEFA cup spot if we could've kept our momentum going but when he didn't get his way on Palacios it felt like he became defeatist rather than defiant and never got back on the horse. As the original post from Zacky suggests Bruce certain has a habit of not recovering from frustration and walking away - which I'd say was understandable due to the fact he will always be in demand elsewhere in one way but also his biggest flaw.

If heaven forbid Cook ever left i'd take Bruce back in a heartbeat if he was willing to come as when he's up for it he knows exactly what he is doing and can achieve great things. But i'd never be sure how long he'd stick around.
 
C_Latic said:
If I could like Bongsman’s post 100 times I would. Not only did he take a squad that were relegation certainties under Hutchings and accumulate enough points to keep us safe even before the last day. He then assembled as said above the best team we’ve ever seen at the club and had us challenging for Europe like what Burnley did last season. Then Zaki had his meltdown and more importantly Dave Whelan sold Heskey and Palacios from under his nose. Bruce understandably lost all motivation knowing our chances of Europe had gone and we already had more than enough points to stay up, hence the second half season slump. Dave Whelan wasn’t willing to match his ambitions to take us to the next level, Sunderland a much bigger club were willing to do so and off he went. Can’t praise Bruce enough for his work here. Top manager and a top bloke and I’ll never hold his own personal ambition against him like some fans.
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this and what bongsman said.

if anything is more on than this spot on then its this spot on

bang on the money
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
Bruce was an excellent manager for us & that team he had during the first half of his full season was the best we ever had.

Like MIW, I don't blame Bruce one bit for becoming demoralised & jumping ship. He had a team genuinely capable of maintaining a challenge for a European spot through it's league position.
He's looking to keep the squad together & possibly even strengthen it. He's asked at a press conference whether Latics will sell Heskey as there's only 6 months left on his contracts & he says he'd be mad to coz even if he didn't stay on at the end of his contract, what he brought to the team & the extra points etc.. that would bring would mean that for the small fee we'd get it wasn't worth it.
The very next day, his employer turns round and says he makes the decisions who goes & who stays & that Heskey will be sold if the right offer comes in as he isn't going to lose him for nothing in the summer. He then goes on to say that the entire squad is available if the right offers come in and, as we've achieved our aim (staying up) it's time to look at who we can get the money to build a squad capable of staying up next season i.e. by selling players & buying cheaper.
Within a matter of days, Heskey's gone, Palacios is gone, Kilbane's gone & only Valencia refusing to join a Spanish team (I'm convinced it was Real Madrid but I could be wrong) so he could join United in the summer, he'd have been gone as well. Other's went too & he was allowed a fraction of that transfer money to spend on replacements.
Before the window closed Whelan also went on to say that the club was now going to start only spending what it brought in.

Now I agree that for the long term future of the club what Whelan did was probably the right thing, but I never agreed on the timing of it. From challenging for Europe to seeing his squad being sold off & told his only aim is to stay up. It wasn't what he'd been sold by Whelan on joining & it had a detrimental impact on Bruce & the team as they knew it was job done for the owner - just like when Jewell said the same thing once we'd reached 40 points in that first season in the top flight
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I remember vividly at the time thinking that was a crossroads for the club and i was convinced that we'd look back on that golden opportunity to take the club to the next level and bitterly regret not taking it.

I really think Whelan completely got that wrong and i fully believe if Whelan would've backed Bruce and kept his players we'd have finished in a UEFA cup spot. Like Bongsman said the timing was all wrong and the knock on effects started a decline that eventually lead to relegation and the loss of the vital Prem tv income.

But at the same time i still felt Bruce should've been a better pro and not given up the way he did - we still had Valencia on one wing, Zog on the other, Cattermole at his peak with Brown, a rock solid defence, Kirkland in the best form of his career, Ben Watson was still a goal scoring attacking mid and Mido, Hugo and Zaki to pick from up front that team was still capable of getting us into Europe if we'd have performed but Bruce's head went and our results and performances just where so under par in those final months.

I think Whelan and Bruce both handled it wrong.
 
C_Latic said:
If I could like Bongsman’s post 100 times I would. Not only did he take a squad that were relegation certainties under Hutchings and accumulate enough points to keep us safe even before the last day. He then assembled as said above the best team we’ve ever seen at the club and had us challenging for Europe like what Burnley did last season. Then Zaki had his meltdown and more importantly Dave Whelan sold Heskey and Palacios from under his nose. Bruce understandably lost all motivation knowing our chances of Europe had gone and we already had more than enough points to stay up, hence the second half season slump. Dave Whelan wasn’t willing to match his ambitions to take us to the next level, Sunderland a much bigger club were willing to do so and off he went. Can’t praise Bruce enough for his work here. Top manager and a top bloke and I’ll never hold his own personal ambition against him like some fans.
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I don't think it's quite as clear cut as you're making it out to be, nor would I agree with you labelling Dave Whelan of all people as unambitious. There's no doubting that the losses of Heskey and Palacios cost us some momentum, but Heskey was out of contract in the summer and wasn't going to sign a new deal, so you can't really pin that one on the chairman especially when every slice of income counts for a club of Wigan's stature.

When you say 'Dave Whelan wasn't willing to match his ambitions to take us to the next level', presumably you mean he wasn't willing to throw as much money at transfers as Bruce wanted him to. There's only so much he could do with the money he had, and based on the catastrophe that was unfolding at Porstmouth whilst they launched money at a smallish team to get them into Europe at the time, I can't blame Whelan for scaling back a bit and taking some precautions.

Whelan's money was never going to be enough to sustain Wigan as a top seven squad, particularly as the years progressed and more and more teams began receiving foreign investment in the top flight. Clearly he knew that, and decided that scaling back to secure a few more years of Premier League football was better than risking it all for one season of Europa League only to crash into financial oblivion as a result straight after a la Pompey.

Besides, it's not as if Bruce had zero money to play with in January - he spent the best part of £10 million on N'Zogbia, Rodallega, Watson and Mido, the latter being a complete failure and the first three only really hit their stride under Martinez. Presumably, Whelan surmised that the wage budget and level of investment going into January 09 wasn't going to be sustainable going forward and was beyond his means, he pumped the brakes a little bit and Bruce didn't like it. I don't blame Bruce for being slightly peeved at having his squad trimmed, but he was living in dreamland if he thought that Whelan had the spending power to turn Wigan into a consistently top-seven side.
 
Lincswiganfan said:
I don't think it's quite as clear cut as you're making it out to be, nor would I agree with you labelling Dave Whelan of all people as unambitious. There's no doubting that the losses of Heskey and Palacios cost us some momentum, but Heskey was out of contract in the summer and wasn't going to sign a new deal, so you can't really pin that one on the chairman especially when every slice of income counts for a club of Wigan's stature.

When you say 'Dave Whelan wasn't willing to match his ambitions to take us to the next level', presumably you mean he wasn't willing to throw as much money at transfers as Bruce wanted him to. There's only so much he could do with the money he had, and based on the catastrophe that was unfolding at Porstmouth whilst they launched money at a smallish team to get them into Europe at the time, I can't blame Whelan for scaling back a bit and taking some precautions.

Whelan's money was never going to be enough to sustain Wigan as a top seven squad, particularly as the years progressed and more and more teams began receiving foreign investment in the top flight. Clearly he knew that, and decided that scaling back to secure a few more years of Premier League football was better than risking it all for one season of Europa League only to crash into financial oblivion as a result straight after a la Pompey.

Besides, it's not as if Bruce had zero money to play with in January - he spent the best part of £10 million on N'Zogbia, Rodallega, Watson and Mido, the latter being a complete failure and the first three only really hit their stride under Martinez. Presumably, Whelan surmised that the wage budget and level of investment going into January 09 wasn't going to be sustainable going forward and was beyond his means, he pumped the brakes a little bit and Bruce didn't like it. I don't blame Bruce for being slightly peeved at having his squad trimmed, but he was living in dreamland if he thought that Whelan had the spending power to turn Wigan into a consistently top-seven side.
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At that moment we had everything going for us and we were well on track for the greatest season in our clubs history - Bruce pretty much drew a line in the sand and made it plain that he was unwilling to sell Palacios (can't remember him being against the Heskey sale publically though so not sure if that was an issue or not).

As you point out he was actually given back about 12.5m (approx Zog 6.5, Watson 2.5, Hugo 3.5 if i recall) of the 15.5m we brought in (Palacios 12m Heskey 3.5) on replacements and Zog was apparently on HUGE money so i don't think financially it was worth upsetting Bruce for the sake of about 3m after what he'd achieved at that point. When you also think that Palacios probably wasn't on huge wages too it's possible the incoming replacement players extra wages would've eaten up that 3m profit so i don't think Wigans finances probably ended up that much better off for the level of upset it caused.

The issue didn't seem to actually be the need to cut back and balance the books at that point - just that Whelan over ruled Bruce and believed the sales were the right move and the money could be reinvested better. To be honest i actually didn't think Heskey and Palacios were in good form when we sold them and we got fair prices but I was completely against selling them as it undermined our mangers wishes - and he was the man who was responsible for our success at that point.

Also if we'd have gotten into Europe that season we'd have had more money to play with on top of more Prem prize money for finishing higher and all the extra sponsorship money that comes from success. We would've been in an even stronger position to demand larger fees for the likes of Valencia and Palacios in the summer when Bruce probably would've been more accepting as it wasn't going to impact our ongoing season and we'd have plenty of time to source replacements properly. Bruce also had a decent record in signing players and them gaining value Figs, Palacios, Cattermol, Rodellega, Zog, Watson were all comfortably worth more than double what we paid for them once they got settled in and found their form even players he already had like Bramble, Boyce, Kirlkland and Scharner increased in value. Granted he had some duds in Kapo and King but his good business far outweighed the bad financially. For me at that time Bruce was our goose that would've kept laying the golden eggs in finding gems if we'd have kept him happy.

I absolutely wouldn't have been up for giving Bruce 30m+ to buy the likes of Couch, Mutari and Defore etc like Pompey did - as that was asking for trouble. But there was a happy medium between that suicidal level of ambition and where Bruce was with us at the time - we were operating at financial ceiling but we weren't crippling ourselves. If he could've keep our recruitment going strong and success on the pitch I think that we could've grown into that larger budget everyone thought was unsustainable. It was the speculation to accumilate - and if we got it wrong and we didn't get in Europe and we had a poor season the season after then fair enough we had loads of sellable assets growing rapidly in value maybe then you cut the budget back and re-evaluate. At that point Bruce maybe would've gone but we'd have given him every chance we could've and ultimately we knew we did everything we could. But for me you don't invest so heavily to get so close to it all paying off and then decide to pull back or rock the boat when you're investment is looking so promising. I think that it was a shocking error in judgement from Whelan with so many knock on effects, it was a crossroads for the club where we took the wrong path. I don't think at that moment it was even ambition it was not trusting your managers judement - who'd done more than enough to have it.
 
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