State of UK politics right now

S

Spurfect11

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I genuinely have not seen anything like this, and doubt I will agin in my lifetime.

I have moved on and accepted the EU result. Unless a General Election is called where a party can say freely they will not leave the EU if they get in power, the Tories must now respect the referendum result and leave.

With that aside - what an earth is going on?

Teresa May "unelected" into the PM role, pro-EU going off to negotiate a Brexit. Willl obviously not be pushing hard for any of the nonsense Gove and Boris were touting - so who out of the Vote Leave camp feels a bit betrayed? I do admire the fact that even a lot of Brexit Tories have rallied behind their leader - make you wonder how many of them really wanted Brexit doesn't it? which brings me onto Labour.....


Can this party be any more embarrsing right now? I'm actually a fan of Corbyn and don't require a sharp suit and toungue to get me a political erection (principles and civilised discussion trump spin and vitriol any day of the week), but the Labour party surely must put principles first. Corbyn's political record and voting history he comes with are the biggest gift unfashionable New Labour have ever been given. You'd think they might rally behind him, but seems they undermined this outsider from the start. Can we seriously have a bunch of childish backstabbers, that voted for Iraq war and were happy to let government cuts go ahead be the offical opposition of the Tories? And what of them trying to not include him on the ballot even though the rules say he can be on there automatically. there's a reason they tried to get him to resign, and going against democracy is not a good look for the challengers....


Will the "smaller" parties benefit from this mess? They must surely, as Corbyn and Farron have already called for, follow in suit for a General Election. UKIP might mop up Labour voters that Eagle and co have doen all in their power to stop Corbyn reaching out to, and also some Tories wanting Boris's Brexit may go too.

Will Labour split and form an alliance with the Greens, SNP, plaid and lib dems on one side, with the other half cosying up with the Tories?


really barmy shit that is going on!
 
but... the rules DO NOT say that a leader is automatically thru' to the ballot without getting the set number of nominations 1st, does it.... apparently Kinnock had to get the required nominations from MPs before defending his leadership..

Going against democracy ??.... there are over 11m people who usually vote for Labour in an election... tere are less than half a million Labour party members who have to pay a subscription (and are engaged enough to be bothered to) every month for this membership.... the vast majority who vote Labour are not paid-up members of the party....

therefore, are you saying that only Labour supporters rich enough, dedicated enough and engaged enough to actually pay to become members, are the ones that matter in choosing the party leader ??

bear in mind that most members of EITHER major party tend towards the extreme and way off the middle-ground needed to WIN ELECTIONS with..

if the answer is Yes to that.... then it will be a very long time before Labour win and govern, and you will be GIFTING the Tories easy large-majorities every single time..

this country is now on a huge slide downwards..... nothing either Labour or Tories can now do about it.

for a very very long time.
 
the rules have changed since Kinnock. They were put in place precisely so that a leader has to be challenged, rather than outsed against the democratic will of party members. i.e. the situation Labour now finds itself in.
 
then lets all merrily skip along to the political wilderness by letting the Labour-Royalty' aka the paid-up members vote Corbyn in again... those who support Labour but are too poor or too busy trying to survive, to pay for membership simply do not count.....and btw, thats about 95% of Labour voters.

the Tories would get a 100+ majority each election... if you think theyre nasty now, you'll beg for the Cameron and Major days all over again, before too long.

youve just seen how 'democracy' kills democracy with this referendum.... lets do it all over again with the Labour party chances of actually winning elections too.
 
If the Country is sliding downwards into dark times. Does that mean our population will thin out because it's not such an attractive soft touch.
 
no, it just means that instead of pink ones coming in, there will be more brown ones instead....

(which is fine by me, being the internationalist that I am)
 
stay as innocent as you are Nick...

who says they won't get jobs ??..... who says they won't get healthcare, income-support, etc..

there are 10s of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands soon, who are using a very safe and secure route into the UK, and will continue to do so... and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

I doubt you even know what that route is.
 
are you saying handouts and social-services like the NHS are 1 and the same thing ??

are you also saying that UK will have 55m jobless ?

I think those at the bottom of the pile here better watch out more than ever.... it won't be Poles without any social-network or capital when they arrive, that will be their rivals for jobs and services..

the E.Europeans would in fact have been your kindred spirits....
 
On the topic of craziness in UK politics, would anyone here consider the burning of effigies of politicians as a wonderful display of British culture?
 
Labours seeming desire for an early General Election seems bizarre to me. Surely they'll only lose further ground, with disenfranchised voters in the North defecting to UKIP and potentially even losing votes to the Lib Dems down south.

If Corbyn wins the leadership election, I can see there being a few Labour MP's defecting to the Lib Dems too, with Farron's visions being far more aligned with the average Labour MP than Corbyns.

It really is a total mess at the moment...
 
Sir Dick Caan - 11/7/2016 18:01

then lets all merrily skip along to the political wilderness by letting the Labour-Royalty' aka the paid-up members vote Corbyn in again... those who support Labour but are too poor or too busy trying to survive, to pay for membership simply do not count.....and btw, thats about 95% of Labour voters.

the Tories would get a 100+ majority each election... if you think theyre nasty now, you'll beg for the Cameron and Major days all over again, before too long.

youve just seen how 'democracy' kills democracy with this referendum.... lets do it all over again with the Labour party chances of actually winning elections too.
Click to expand...

students and young people are about as poor as anyone in this country. and you could turn this "labour royalty" logic on it's head by pointing at the PLP.
 
If Corbyn wins the leadership election, I can see there being a few Labour MP's defecting to the Lib Dems too, with Farron's visions being far more aligned with the average Labour MP than Corbyns.

It really is a total mess at the moment...[/QUOTE]

It would be true if only they weren't more aligned with the Tories than Lib Dems.
 
Labour needs Corbyn because - if the last 5 years of global voting trends is anything to go by - politics has become more about protest votes than genuine views, so the ballot needs a proper left wing protest vote option to keep the country from swinging ever-further to the right.

... and as for the Labour MP's defecting to the Lib Dems; no thanks, them ****s can start their own party. Blairite, red-tie-tory, Party.
 
Spurfect11 - 12/7/2016 09:17



If Corbyn wins the leadership election, I can see there being a few Labour MP's defecting to the Lib Dems too, with Farron's visions being far more aligned with the average Labour MP than Corbyns.

It really is a total mess at the moment...
Click to expand...

It would be true if only they weren't more aligned with the Tories than Lib Dems.[/QUOTE]

The party is split into 3:

The Corbynites
The Bairites
The Centre

The Corbyn followers are probably outweighed by the others...
 
i think Labour has been stale since gordon brown took over. useless even. I hate the Tories but have to admire how they stick together and focus on the task at hand.

perhaps it is best the party just splits, because even if a blairite or centrist gets in, they will not defeat the tories. Ed Milliband and his heavy endorsement from those currently running the coup showed this.

My ideal scenario is the corbyn faction splitting off and and forming a new party with the greens, plaid, SNP and even Lib Dems if they fancied it. Tim Farron is the most left wing leader they've had.

what is clear to me though is that center politics is not the holy grail it once was.
 
Blair PROVED that you can win multiple elecetions from the centre-left... and if you think you can count on the 40 odd MPs from the SNP after this year you are more naive than you realise (Scotland is bound to Screxit the UK)

I think this new 1-member-1-vote has truly done for the Labour Party... you have basically 100k people who are very devoit socialists voting on behalf of 10m+ Labour voters who are just normal everyday non-political folk trying to make a living to support their families: 1% of Labour supporters control everything.... the tail wagging the dog.

hows that for democracy.

I'm just so angry at the selfish Corbyn, who is not so stupid to believe he has a snowball's chance of winning a general election with his brand of extreme leftwing politics..... he is the Left's equivalent of UKIP.

lets see how the Labour national committee decide on whether he needs 20% nominations to re-enter leadership race or not.
 
Spurfect11 - 12/7/2016 09:14

Sir Dick Caan - 11/7/2016 18:01

then lets all merrily skip along to the political wilderness by letting the Labour-Royalty' aka the paid-up members vote Corbyn in again... those who support Labour but are too poor or too busy trying to survive, to pay for membership simply do not count.....and btw, thats about 95% of Labour voters.

the Tories would get a 100+ majority each election... if you think theyre nasty now, you'll beg for the Cameron and Major days all over again, before too long.

youve just seen how 'democracy' kills democracy with this referendum.... lets do it all over again with the Labour party chances of actually winning elections too.
Click to expand...

students and young people are about as poor as anyone in this country. and you could turn this "labour royalty" logic on it's head by pointing at the PLP.
Click to expand...

my point is... 1% of Labour supporters who are bothered enough to PAY A SUBSCRIPTION evey month to be members, get to decide the the leadership and therefore direction of the party.... and 99% of Labour supporters who don't want to pay or simply CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY for membership are disenfranchised from the process.

those members are mainly from the more extreme element of the Left and will vote for leadership who reflects that... that in turn means the party become near-unelectable at elections and ironically gift the Tories even bigger majorities then otherwise.

do you see now how too much democracy can actually mean LESS democracy.
 
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