Spurs supporters trust reject meeting Levy...

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Some very interesting points.

But who can put real pressure on governing bodies like Uefa and FIFA to force change?

Fans can influence their clubs but not these sorts of bodies.

Reviews like the current one led by Tracey Crouch can only work at the national level. But the Premier League and other affiliated bodies can't act independently of Uefa and FIFA.

Even the combined might of the strongest European clubs isn't powerful enough notwithstanding the fact that their interests are motivated by profit not the betterment of football. And quite ironically their latest push with the Super League has managed to portray the governing bodies as noble defenders of the sport when in fact they are mainly the root problem.

 

[Pompey Yid]

For me its the background, as in "The Corrupt, money grabbing, You cant touch us Boys Club's" aka FIFA n EUFA.

 

[Spursex]

Some very interesting points.

But who can put real pressure on governing bodies like Uefa and FIFA to force change?

Fans can influence their clubs but not these sorts of bodies.

Reviews like the current one led by Tracey Crouch can only work at the national level. But the Premier League and other affiliated bodies can't act independently of Uefa and FIFA.

Even the combined might of the strongest European clubs isn't powerful enough notwithstanding the fact that their interests are motivated by profit not the betterment of football. And quite ironically their latest push with the Super League has managed to portray the governing bodies as noble defenders of the sport when in fact they are mainly the root problem.

They all reside in Switzerland; it has to be political co-operation amongst all the major footballing nations - then and only then will the Swiss authorities (who oversea all the legalities) act.

Who knows, it might even (God forbid) entail the United Nations being involved.

What we cannot allow to continue is the blatant disregard for nations major sporting events by these governing bodies.

The ultimate Sporting court is based in Switzerland, and may well be for governments to take the issues to them, this *new* fight will not and cannot be a quick fix.

 

[Spursex]

For me its the background, as in "The Corrupt, money grabbing, You cant touch us Boys Club's" aka FIFA n EUFA.

It's their failure to govern and lead which has been caused by them all having their heads in the trough which has led to where we are now.

Do not be fooled, it is they that have failed us, not the owners. The owners are only guilty of trying to find away past them - and the more you look at it, the more the key issue becomes painfully clear. It is as you say, FIFA, UEFA, the FA et al.

 

[Littlest Hobo]

We do not need more protests like this. Let this get out of control and we'd never be able to stop it, the PL could be ruined for a decade or more.

I say good. 10 years of pain is no more than clubs like Leeds Utd spent in the wilderness.


I'm NOT a believer in giving fans a greater say, especially when it comes to what owners can and cannot do

I think there has to be some fan or stronger government influence. It may even deter the owners who think coming to the premiership is a licence to do what they want.



Govern the game professionally and with enforceable legal sanctions and you have a healthy game that doesn't need to consider a Superleague approach.

That sounds like similar talk to FFP which has been absolutely toothless.

It's been like the Klondike Goldrush for 3 decades, nows the time to bring some law and order and to repair and protect the environment, as all we've really done is leave heaps of shit and covered it over with shiny money piles.

And build ever bigger debts. More money brings more debt.

 

[Pompey Yid]

It's their failure to govern and lead which has been caused by them all having their heads in the trough which has led to where we are now.

Do not be fooled, it is they that have failed us, not the owners. The owners are only guilty of trying to find away past them - and the more you look at it, the more the key issue becomes painfully clear. It is as you say, FIFA, UEFA, the FA et al.

100% there Ex, you explained it in a bit more detail than I being the simple one lol! no seriously "its as plain as the nose on you boatrace"

 

[meee93]

Whilst I don't have any interest in defending the supporters trust and for the sake of debate/discussion, do they not already have semi regular meetings with Levy? So their point is more that Levy isn't listening to the so called will of the fans and so they see no other alternative than to raise the stakes to bring in big Joe.

Either way, the only thing that will come of it would be a token gesture. The game has gone too far down this path to have significant fan ownership. What these fan groups should be focusing efforts on is on ensuring the FA/Premier League/EFL/Government introduce legislation that will produce meaningful positive change and prevent negative change.

 

[pjones40]

It's time Levy and Lewis got out of our club. The super League fiasco was terrible the way he 6 clubs handled it and turned their backs on everything we stand for and believe in as supporters. The fact that we are owned by English men makes us the worsted of all. They know the tradition of the English game. How much we love the fa cup. The battle o the small clubs Vs the top clubs. The joy of getting on over you rivals in the prem . They know all of this and they still shit on the English game and us as fans

 

[Departed]

It's time Levy and Lewis got out of our club. The super League fiasco was terrible the way he 6 clubs handled it and turned their backs on everything we stand for and believe in as supporters. The fact that we are owned by English men makes us the worsted of all. They know the tradition of the English game. How much we love the fa cup. The battle o the small clubs Vs the top clubs. The joy of getting on over you rivals in the prem . They know all of this and they still shit on the English game and us as fans

Don't agree PJ. I think Levy went for it because if it had worked and we were left on the outside the club would have been in receivership in 12 months.......or less.

He had no choice.

 

[freundorfoe]

Don't agree PJ. I think Levy went for it because if it had worked and we were left on the outside the club would have been in receivership in 12 months.......or less.

He had no choice.

I agree. Arsenal and us were lucky to be invited. Not saying it was a good idea, but if it had gone ahead he'd have been a bad chairman to turn down the chance to come out of a pandemic driven financial crisis smelling of roses when it comes to his beloved balance sheets.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Don't agree PJ. I think Levy went for it because if it had worked and we were left on the outside the club would have been in receivership in 12 months.......or less.

He had no choice.

I agree. Arsenal and us were lucky to be invited. Not saying it was a good idea, but if it had gone ahead he'd have been a bad chairman to turn down the chance to come out of a pandemic driven financial crisis smelling of roses when it comes to his beloved balance sheets.

But the planning for the Super League has gone back years. The clubs signed contracts. The finance was in place. This didn't happen overnight.

So whatever the rights and wrongs of the plan, the clubs were committed to joining irrespective of the pandemic.

 

[Spursex]

We do not need more protests like this. Let this get out of control and we'd never be able to stop it, the PL could be ruined for a decade or more.

I say good. 10 years of pain is no more than clubs like Leeds Utd spent in the wilderness.


I'm NOT a believer in giving fans a greater say, especially when it comes to what owners can and cannot do

I think there has to be some fan or stronger government influence. It may even deter the owners who think coming to the premiership is a licence to do what they want.



Govern the game professionally and with enforceable legal sanctions and you have a healthy game that doesn't need to consider a Superleague approach.

That sounds like similar talk to FFP which has been absolutely toothless.

It's been like the Klondike Goldrush for 3 decades, nows the time to bring some law and order and to repair and protect the environment, as all we've really done is leave heaps of shit and covered it over with shiny money piles.

And build ever bigger debts. More money brings more debt.

The PL was and still is the best league in the world, a decade of disruption would destroy it and guarantee that a Superleague would happen, these circumstances bear no relation to a club that gambled and blew it. There is no correlation between the two.

As I said, the government(s) have to step up now and into the breach, Fans all believe that they are football and business managers, and very very few are, putting them on an owner board would achieve nothing.


FFP has been toothless, because as I pointed out the vested interests of the governing bodies have made it so - bring in government backed legal sanctions and you will have an effective control of the whole game.

More money doesn't bring more debt, if you have a regulatory framework, it's as simple as that.

 

[freundorfoe]

But the planning for the Super League has gone back years. The clubs signed contracts. The finance was in place. This didn't happen overnight.

So whatever the rights and wrongs of the plan, the clubs were committed to joining irrespective of the pandemic.

I thought it came out that we were late additions rather than architects of this?

I doubt levy saw the fans perspective on it particularly so may have been unaware. But he was definitely in a damned if he did damned if he didn’t scenario.

 

[Spursex]

I thought it came out that we were late additions rather than architects of this?

I doubt levy saw the fans perspective on it particularly so may have been unaware. But he was definitely in a damned if he did damned if he didn’t scenario.

There is much in terms of the backdrop yet to be clear; the leaders in all this were not us, we had little impact on planning other than being asked are we in or out?

Given that we did have all the details of what was planned, saying 'yes' was a no-brainer, even if it ultimately proved to be the wrong one.

For the smart people behind it, they were utterly oblivious of what they needed to do to gain groundswell support - that was a dumb, stupid lack of planning.

 

[muttley]

For me it is simple. The Premier League is a UK export. The football played by English clubs in UEFA competitions is also an export, just like our attractive international team. They are all exports of a fantastic product. Just like if I'm watching Barca vs RM. That's a Spanish import.

The other piece that is simple is that football fans pay FOOTBALL CLUBS to watch football matches. Whether you're watching through the turnstile, via your TV or streaming via the internet, I believe the money should first flow from the fan to the club. "Football taxes or uplifts" can also be applied to pay for things like The FA and grassroots investment. They also need to pay for TV cameras, pundits and commentators.

When I think about it like this, the football world becomes very simple. You just build everything else around this concept whether it is government's legislation, football's own governance models or the technology and infrastructure that supports it. Supply and demand will take care of the rest.

For me, this needs to be the blueprint.

That means UEFA has to stop playing God with everyone's money. It also means that Sky's monopoly is over along with the huge chunk of consumer spending that becomes Comcast's profits in the US. It means the fat agents should be running for cover as well.

What is needed most though is fans demanding that their hard earned money goes to their clubs to watch footballers run around a football pitch. Back to basics.

 

[Departed]

There is much in terms of the backdrop yet to be clear; the leaders in all this were not us, we had little impact on planning other than being asked are we in or out?

Given that we did have all the details of what was planned, saying 'yes' was a no-brainer, even if it ultimately proved to be the wrong one.

For the smart people behind it, they were utterly oblivious of what they needed to do to gain groundswell support - that was a dumb, stupid lack of planning.

This could be the first move. The only way to gauge reaction and to root out the opposition is to pull a stunt like that. Now, the ESL proponents know who is likely to try to torpedo any attempts in the future. Effectively, who must they steamroll and who must they integrate into the revenue streams.

If they break away from UEFA and FIFA and keep the relegation/promotion aspect, or guarantee to reintroduce R&P in 5 years with the first expansion teams then I am all for it.

 

[Pompey Yid]

For me it is simple. The Premier League is a UK export. The football played by English clubs in UEFA competitions is also an export, just like our attractive international team. They are all exports of a fantastic product. Just like if I'm watching Barca vs RM. That's a Spanish import.

The other piece that is simple is that football fans pay FOOTBALL CLUBS to watch football matches. Whether you're watching through the turnstile, via your TV or streaming via the internet, I believe the money should first flow from the fan to the club. "Football taxes or uplifts" can also be applied to pay for things like The FA and grassroots investment. They also need to pay for TV cameras, pundits and commentators.

When I think about it like this, the football world becomes very simple. You just build everything else around this concept whether it is government's legislation, football's own governance models or the technology and infrastructure that supports it. Supply and demand will take care of the rest.

For me, this needs to be the blueprint.

That means UEFA has to stop playing God with everyone's money. It also means that Sky's monopoly is over along with the huge chunk of consumer spending that becomes Comcast's profits in the US. It means the fat agents should be running for cover as well.

What is needed most though is fans demanding that their hard earned money goes to their clubs to watch footballers run around a football pitch. Back to basics.

muttley, well said, simple idea, but way to easy, so will not happen, though millions of us wish it would.

 

[Matic]

How do you stop big club monopoly on success if you have massive, global clubs like Man Utd pulling in millions on millions through self-broadcasting?

I'm all for the end of the Sky, FA, Premier League, UEFA, FIFA dictatorships, but painting these big club owners as potential saviours of the modern game is ridiculous. They are all cut from the same greedy cloth. Give them an inch and they will take several thousand miles.

 

[Departed]

How do you stop big club monopoly on success if you have massive, global clubs like Man Utd pulling in millions on millions through self-broadcasting?

I'm all for the end of the Sky, FA, Premier League, UEFA, FIFA dictatorships, but painting these big club owners as potential saviours of the modern game is ridiculous. They are all cut from the same greedy cloth. Give them an inch and they will take several thousand miles.

Profit is not a dirty word. It takes money to evolve the game. It will take money to solve the lack of quality referees, the racism problem and the grassroots lack of support.

Regulating structures is how you direct money to the appropriate places.

Right now you have FIFA and UEFA regulating the structures and by the time the money gets where it is really needed there isn much left because these organizations absorb a massive chunk.

You can blame the owners if you wish but I would look at their overall profitability and compare it to any other labour intensive business before casting stones.

The two big drains that money flows into are player wages and regulatory bodies infrastructure. Start there.

 

[Spursex]

Profit is not a dirty word. It takes money to evolve the game. It will take money to solve the lack of quality referees, the racism problem and the grassroots lack of support.

Regulating structures is how you direct money to the appropriate places.

Right now you have FIFA and UEFA regulating the structures and by the time the money gets where it is really needed there isn much left because these organizations absorb a massive chunk.

You can blame the owners if you wish but I would look at their overall profitability and compare it to any other labour intensive business before casting stones.

The two big drains that money flows into are player wages and regulatory bodies infrastructure. Start there.

I'll keep saying it and saying it; Good Governance, Effective Governance, and fair governance cannot be delivered by self-interested parties (as we have now - where we are now is as much if not more of an indictment of the failures and self-interest of FIFA, UEFA, The FA and the players) - it has to be an arms-length overarching body, and whilst I loath government interference there is a clear and obvious market failing, and that's what governments are good at doing - filling that gap that can be to the benefit of all, not just a few.