Spurs representing England RIP | Vital Football

Spurs representing England RIP

#1
So Southgate has just announced his provisional "33 man squad" for the Euro's. Another true indicator of how far Spurs have fallen as a club in my opinion. We now have 1 player in the best 33.....soon to be a City player no doubt.

We now live in a world where the 3rd best German club pick up young English talent ahead of us and have more representation than ourselves in the England national squad. We surely must change this as we think about our transfer strategy in these next couple of seasons.

Anyway, for those that care, here's the squad. 11 players involved in the UEFA finals and 2 warm up games next week. So Southgate has gone with a big squad. 7 will miss out when he culls early next week.

England's provisional 33-man squad in full
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Man Utd), Sam Johnstone (West Brom), Jordon Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Sheff Utd)

Defenders: John Stones (Man City), Luke Shaw (Man Utd), Harry Maguire (Man Utd), Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Kyle Walker (Man City), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Reece James (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolves), Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Ben Godfrey (Everton), Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Ben White (Brighton)

Midfielders: Mason Mount (Chelsea), Declan Rice (West Ham), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Phil Foden (Man City), Jack Grealish (Aston Villa), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds), Jesse Lingard (Man Utd), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal)

Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Man Utd), Raheem Sterling (Man City), Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Mason Greenwood (Man Utd), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#2
So Southgate has just announced his provisional "33 man squad" for the Euro's. Another true indicator of how far Spurs have fallen as a club in my opinion. We now have 1 player in the best 33.....soon to be a City player no doubt.

We now live in a world where the 3rd best German club pick up young English talent ahead of us and have more representation than ourselves in the England national squad. We surely must change this as we think about our transfer strategy in these next couple of seasons.

Anyway, for those that care, here's the squad. 11 players involved in the UEFA finals and 2 warm up games next week. So Southgate has gone with a big squad. 7 will miss out when he culls early next week.

England's provisional 33-man squad in full
Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Man Utd), Sam Johnstone (West Brom), Jordon Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Sheff Utd)

Defenders: John Stones (Man City), Luke Shaw (Man Utd), Harry Maguire (Man Utd), Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Kyle Walker (Man City), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Reece James (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolves), Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Ben Godfrey (Everton), Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Ben White (Brighton)

Midfielders: Mason Mount (Chelsea), Declan Rice (West Ham), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Phil Foden (Man City), Jack Grealish (Aston Villa), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds), Jesse Lingard (Man Utd), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal)

Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Man Utd), Raheem Sterling (Man City), Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Mason Greenwood (Man Utd), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund)
Not so long ago, Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Winks and Kane.

Then again 2 years ago this week we were preparing for a Champions League final.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#6
That is some fall from grace, for both the players individually and for us as a club, Muttley and Gary.

Oh and congrats on winning the Predictor Thread, Gary. I feel for '54, but nicely done, my man.
Cheers SE. I got lucky I think. The season ended a couple of weeks after I hit the top. Had it continued in another couple of weeks I would probably have been off it.
 
#8
Dier and Winks have not done enough to justify a place. Dele might have been considered. Given the choice of Dele or Lingard playing for Spurs, I would stick with Dele.
I'm not sure anyone would argue for the inclusion of more current Spurs players in this squad. My question is more why this significant pool of English talent has emerged, but not through our club. Sort of identifies a root cause and perhaps a strong hint what we need to do to get back on the right trajectory.

Saying that, we do have Japhet, Sess and Skipp in the 21's.
 

Littlest Hobo

Vital Squad Member
#9
I dont have an issue with it. I wouldnt be taking any of them either, they dont deserve it. I would also have spent the last 18mths looking for a plan B using 3-4 mobile forward players without the focus of Kane because tournament football is never as straightforward as playing your best players to win.
 

meee93

Vital Champions League
#10
Ranking
Man United; 5 (6 if counting Lingard who won't make final cut)
Man City; 4
Chelsea; 3
Everton; 3
Villa; 3
Dortmund; 2
Liverpool; 2
Tottenham; 1
Atletico; 1
Southampton; 1
Arsenal; 1
Leeds; 1
Brighton; 1
Wolves; 1
West Brom; 1
Sheff Utd; 1
West Ham; 1
Wolves; 1

Without looking back at old squads I would say England hasn't had as diverse a squad as that in a long time. Granted several of these players will be cut which will reduce the number of clubs in the final squad.

That is representative of the vast improvement of English players throughout league, the vast improvement of wealth in all of the Premier league sides, the home grown rules which put importance in English players, the competitiveness of many different clubs being able to qualify to play in Europe, all of which combines to mean that the top English players are not always moving to the teams that finish top of the league which is what happened in the past.

To get top English talent now, you need to be willing to pay top money for them eg City, Chelsea & United.
If you can't afford top prices then you need to take risks at earlier stages of their development which doesn't always go smoothly.
Chelsea are able to hoover up young talent and infinitely loan them out due to their budget, and it's finally coming good for them.
Obviously United have a great academy record so unsurprisingly are top.

It is clearly a sign of how we have failed to refresh our squad by picking up young talent over the last 3 or 4 years. But I'm not too panicked about us only having 1 England representative. This is how English football will go now that the FA have got their act together for the last 10 years at developing kids.
 
#13
The one thing Jose did well was ensure that our players get a good rest this summer.

Bergwijn is the latest to be culled from Holand's provisional squad. He follows Dier, Reggie, Dele, Ndombele and Winks who already join Hart, Moura and Lamela, our permanent international absentees.

With the Qatar World Cup in the middle of a domestic season, we might be the early thought leaders in this area. We must now buy Max Aarons, England's 6th choice RB so there is no chance of him getting tired. Bamford must be on the list as well.
 
#14
The one thing Jose did well was ensure that our players get a good rest this summer.

Bergwijn is the latest to be culled from Holand's provisional squad. He follows Dier, Reggie, Dele, Ndombele and Winks who already join Hart, Moura and Lamela, our permanent international absentees.

With the Qatar World Cup in the middle of a domestic season, we might be the early thought leaders in this area. We must now buy Max Aarons, England's 6th choice RB so there is no chance of him getting tired. Bamford must be on the list as well.
Max recently 'popped in' to check out our facilities, of course he was with another spurs player.....cough cough, so who knows!?
 
#16
Jose Mourinho is the England career wrecker – the FA dodged a bullet by not hiring him
Dele Alli and Eric Dier find themselves trapped in the same career nosedive that once sent Luke Shaw into a downward spiral

Luke Edwards 26 May 2021 • 1:31pm



A few years ago Mourinho might have been England's first choice as manager - but now? Credit: AP Photo/Laszlo Balogh

As the Tottenham Hotspur players left out of England’s preliminary 33-man squad for the European Championships reflect on what has gone so disastrously wrong for them since the World Cup they will have winced at listening to Manchester United’s Luke Shaw explaining why things have gone right for him.
Shaw was preparing to face Villarreal in the final of the Europa League when he made the comments that will cut deeply into the Spurs players, regardless of where they are currently on holiday licking their wounds after a largely embarrassing Premier League campaign.

“I like someone who obviously believes in me and trusts me,” Shaw replied when asked why his performances for United have improved to such an extent he is likely to also start for England this summer. “I didn’t have that for a while and it’s nice to have that now.”

What he has is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as manager, encouraging and nurturing him back to his best form. What he had was Jose Mourinho on his case, criticising, poking and even occasionally mocking him. Not just within the privacy of the training ground or the confines of the dressing room, but often in public, through the media too.


Mourinho was often publicly critical of Luke Shaw .

Whatever your opinion on Mourinho, his handling of Shaw was poor. Some players respond to the stick, sure, but Shaw was not one of them. Whatever Mourinho thought he was doing by picking on the full back during his time as Manchester United, it was a mistake.

Of course, Shaw has had some growing up to do as well. He was not as fit as he should be and possibly was not as focused either. Perhaps Mourinho’s tough love was necessary for a while, but one of the most damaging things you can say about a manager is that a player who went backwards when he was in charge has improved so much since that he is almost unrecognisable to the one he left behind.
Whether Shaw is first choice left back under Gareth Southgate remains to be seen, but the fact he is back in the squad is proof of the big strides he has made.
Mourinho, of course, will be in Italy next season as Roma manager, but his impact on those he leaves behind are still being felt acutely.

In 2018, Dele Alli and Eric Dier were almost as important to England as captain Harry Kane, but are so far away from playing for their country that they could not even make a bloated pre-tournament squad which will be cut by seven players next week ahead of the Euros. Harry Winks was also in the picture too.
Dier converted the penalty that secured victory over Columbia in the Round of 16 in Russia. Alli scored against Sweden in the quarter final. They were supposedly England’s future, but have faded into the past.


Dier was a crucial part of England's 2018 World Cup team that made the semi-finals
After reaching the Champions League final in 2019 with Tottenham, all three have gone into the sort of nosedive that wrecks careers. All should be in the prime, none are currently good enough to play for their country.

Dier is 27, Alli is still just 25, as is Winks. But after 18 months playing for Mourinho they are not the same players in the same way Shaw was not either.

It is easy to blame their former manager for that and convenient for them too. But they must also take their fair share of blame for their downward spiral.

They can be bitter and blame Mourinho, but while Alli was an outcast under the Portuguese, Dier was one of his favourites at White Hart Lane. Neither benefited from playing for him, which is the most damning part of it.

What does this all mean for Mourinho himself? If you had asked most England supporters a few years ago, Mourinho would have been many people’s first choice to take charge of the national team.

And for all the Football Association’s insistence on pathways and domestic coaches being groomed for it, if the England job had become available five, even or even three years ago and Mourinho said he wanted it, he probably would have got it.

But how could the FA consider him now given the detrimental impact he has had on so many young England players in the last few seasons?
Whether we ever see Mourinho back in the Premier League is not certain, although it would be premature to rule it out given the money swilling around, but the idea he could ever be a suitable England manager – after the damage he has done to some English players - is surely over for good.
 

meee93

Vital Champions League
#18
4 specialist RB's.....5 specialists midfielders. Go figure.
As amusing as this summary is, I think the English reaction to the squad is way over the top. It's been clear since Southgate took charge that he would play 5 at the back and also that James and Walker will play as a RCB in the 3. In the context of his desired set up, along with England's weakness at CB, it makes sense. Plus, several of the players noted as forwards are essentially attacking midfielders.

It's not the squad I would have chosen if I were him, but if he wants to play 5-2-3 then it is hard to fault the selections.
 
#19
As amusing as this summary is, I think the English reaction to the squad is way over the top. It's been clear since Southgate took charge that he would play 5 at the back and also that James and Walker will play as a RCB in the 3. In the context of his desired set up, along with England's weakness at CB, it makes sense. Plus, several of the players noted as forwards are essentially attacking midfielders.

It's not the squad I would have chosen if I were him, but if he wants to play 5-2-3 then it is hard to fault the selections.
True, but does it make sense to put these players into that system when the clubs play 4 at the back. Tuchel is perhaps the only one that has been dabbling with 3 at the back and wing-backs.

It surely has to be 4 at the back with Rice sitting.

Such a shame that Joe Gomez wasn't available. He changes that entire defensive squad dynamic.