So, who wants lockdown easing then? | Page 3 | Vital Football

So, who wants lockdown easing then?

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#42
It is a no from me.
The other countries lifting their lockdowns are starting from positions that are much stricter than our restrictions.
The stories of what it is like to have Covid 19 are scarey.
Deaths after apparently beginning recovery are scarey.

MiW, Notts, Hampden Mooney & others, fancy a serious thread (no politics) about how business, economics, trade and life will change post this current mess given a vaccine/no vaccine future? I guess no.
I’m afraid those topics are intrinsically linked to politics in one way or another.

Even with a vaccine I don’t think things will go back to the way they were. For example no need for endless face to face meetings and for people to be in offices all the time as these can be conducted remotely with people at home in many instances. This change could be impactive in many ways. As a consequence of that change there should be less demand on public transport and indeed private transport- but it will lead to less fuel tax revenue. May have a knock on effect for local businesses such as deli’s, coffee shops etc with less lunchtime trade. Less employed, less tax, more unemployment benefits. Those nice insurance companies however will see it as an opportunity to ask more questions and whack up premiums for home working. Effectively any change will create a domino effect.

With the increasing reliance on broadband connectivity to facilitate business is it wise to let Huawei play a prominent role in the network? I was previously open minded to this decision but I’ve now changed it. Given the obfuscation, lies, cover up and subsequent economic exploitation over Covid the Chinese state cannot be trusted so I wouldn’t be allowing a prominent company from that company into our critical infrastructure. Will Boris reassess? I suspect he will - or at least be forced to.

I’ve tried to limit my political contribution in the last week or so, I found some of it distasteful in the current climate. (Not a dig at you or anyone else for the sake of clarity). As you can see from the above example any change or discussion will inevitably lead back to politics, so whilst you propose interesting topics for debate it will come back to it eventually. Btw your list of potential contributors seems exclusive and should be an open ended invitation for all.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#43
Funnily enough MiW, you posted whist I was preparing this post (hence, I tweaked it a little) ....... and I tend to share some of your concerns.

Up front - Track and trace is a good idea.

However, does anyone else have concerns over how the data might be used (beyond tracing) and the links, through Cummings' sidekick Warner, the link to his brother's company and the still outstanding issue re the usage of data by Leave EU?

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories, but this one smells a bit. A couple of IT lads I used to work with say there's no way they'll be downloading it, whatever the circumstance.

EDIT - I was going to post this along with Dalek's post ........but given that was in the "good news" thread, and it seemed to link to MiW's concerns, here seemed a better option.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#44
Funnily enough MiW, you posted whist I was preparing this post (hence, I tweaked it a little) ....... and I tend to share some of your concerns.

Up front - Track and trace is a good idea.

However, does anyone else have concerns over how the data might be used (beyond tracing) and the links, through Cummings' sidekick Warner, the link to his brother's company and the still outstanding issue re the usage of data by Leave EU?

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories, but this one smells a bit. A couple of IT lads I used to work with say there's no way they'll be downloading it, whatever the circumstance.

EDIT - I was going to post this along with Dalek's post ........but given that was in the "good news" thread, and it seemed to link to MiW's concerns, here seemed a better option.
IT lads or not it sounds like paranoia to me. In what nefarious way do you or they think the data may be used?

Their decision again for me goes back to politics and they should be looking at the bigger picture - which is this is an innovative way to contain/limit exposure to an infectious disease. I find it pretty sad if people can’t put politics aside at times like this.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#45
IT lads or not it sounds like paranoia to me. In what nefarious way do you or they think the data may be used?

Their decision again for me goes back to politics and they should be looking at the bigger picture - which is this is an innovative way to contain/limit exposure to an infectious disease. I find it pretty sad if people can’t put politics aside at times like this.
Firstly, I'm happy to say that one has no interest in politics, or parties, at all. The other is a dyed in the wool Blue.

They both say it based on how data can be used, manipulated and exploited. Just like it was during the referendum, with targetted messaging. Hell, even this site does the same with the ads.

I said at the outset that I thought track and trace to be a good idea. All I'm saying is that maybe the government don't have a great track (no pun) record in showing they deserve to be trusted. (I'm sure you'll disagree on this point).
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#46
Firstly, I'm happy to say that one has no interest in politics, or parties, at all. The other is a dyed in the wool Blue.

They both say it based on how data can be used, manipulated and exploited. Just like it was during the referendum, with targetted messaging. Hell, even this site does the same with the ads.

I said at the outset that I thought track and trace to be a good idea. All I'm saying is that maybe the government don't have a great track (no pun) record in showing they deserve to be trusted. (I'm sure you'll disagree on this point).
Sounds they have an extremely weak argument for me. The fear they maybe subject to targeted ads is greater than the benefits of downloading the app so it can help contain this virus, getting back to normality quicker and without sounding cliched saving lives. Dear God.

The country is locked down and the economy is in the shitter. Six months ago you probably thought it would be something a conservative government wouldn’t do. They have, for the right reasons. If they think a contract tracing app may help in reducing infection rates then folk should put paranoia and distrust aside, get a grip of themselves and go with it and effectively stop being so selfish.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#47
Sounds they have an extremely weak argument for me. The fear they maybe subject to targeted ads is greater than the benefits of downloading the app so it can help contain this virus, getting back to normality quicker and without sounding cliched saving lives. Dear God..
I gave you more credit than to simply take my single example of how the data was obviously previously used, and to assume that is the only concern, rather than list other stuff which you would simply have labelled "conspiracies" and shit stirring.

The country is locked down and the economy is in the shitter. Six months ago you probably thought it would be something a conservative government wouldn’t do. They have, for the right reasons. If they think a contract tracing app may help in reducing infection rates then folk should put paranoia and distrust aside, get a grip of themselves and go with it and effectively stop being so selfish.
Hey, I've said it's a good idea. I also have some concern that the government aren't beyond using data in a way that the public aren't ware of.

I see that Vallance and Harries have both said this morning that an earlier start to testing would have been beneficial, but it didn't for a few reasons ....... one being that they didn't have the capacity and wider support.

So much for "the right things at the right time".
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#48
I gave you more credit than to simply take my single example of how the data was obviously previously used, and to assume that is the only concern, rather than list other stuff which you would simply have labelled "conspiracies" and shit stirring.
Any I asked you what nefarious reasons there would be and it was the only one you came up with. Sounds like your IT mates need to grow a set and look beyond their paranoia and get on board with the national effort. If not they should be stuck on a covid no treatment list along with all these dickheads found flouting lockdown laws.

didn't for a few reasons ....... one being that they didn't have the capacity a
So it wasn’t possible then.

o much for "the right things at the right time"
Do you ever stop moaning?
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#49
Any I asked you what nefarious reasons there would be and it was the only one you came up with. Sounds like your IT mates need to grow a set and look beyond their paranoia and get on board with the national effort. If not they should be stuck on a covid no treatment list along with all these dickheads found flouting lockdown laws.
My. Seeing as you can't call them lefties, they're now bollockless. Snowflakes? You do like your labels, don't you. So you'd withhold treatment simply because they doubt the integrity of Dominic Cummings? Unbelievable.

So it wasn’t possible then.?
They didn't say it wasn't possible ........you're making things up again. The reasons they didn't do it could have been resolved .......or resolved sooner. They chose to take another tack.

Do you ever stop moaning?
Will the government ever stop lying?
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#50
My. Seeing as you can't call them lefties, they're now bollockless. Snowflakes? You do like your labels, don't you. So you'd withhold treatment simply because they doubt the integrity of Dominic Cummings? Unbelievable.
Bollockless snowflakes is your description - though seems quite apt. Yes I would put them on a list - I suspect they are bitter remoaners still fighting a lost war because they don’t like the PMs advisor as he shatters their dreams at every turn. Utterly pathetic. The government is trying to limit the spread of a deadly disease yet some folk are so childish over perceived grievances they won’t engage. So damn straight I’d put them on a no treatment list.

They didn't say it wasn't possible ........you're making things up again. The reasons they didn't do it could have been resolved .......or resolved sooner. They chose to take another tack.
They said there wasn’t capacity, so until there was tackled it differently. Yet it hasn’t stopped you getting worked up and moaning about it.

M
Will the government ever stop lying?
I go back to a point above - you are continuing to act like a bitter remoaner fighting lost wars.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#51
Bollockless snowflakes is your description - though seems quite apt. Y.
You can't help yourself, can you?

You said they should grow a pair ........... is that not lacking bollocks?

Normally, it's you who sneer at those who .......well, I'm not sure why you do ....by labelling them as snowflakes. I've never labelled anyone by that term ........I've merely suggested that those who do use it tend to be the ones who are most deserving of it.

Yes I would put them on a list - I suspect they are bitter remoaners still fighting a lost war because they don’t like the PMs advisor as he shatters their dreams at every turn. Utterly pathetic. ..
Yay! There we go again. Assuming ( and sneering at) how someone voted in a referendum, purely to make it fit your narrative.

References to a war !!!!! Wonderful. "Shatters their dreams"? Have you heard how you sound?

The government is trying to limit the spread of a deadly disease yet some folk are so childish over perceived grievances they won’t engage. So damn straight I’d put them on a no treatment list..
No. You've created the "perceived grievance". It didn't exist before you made it up.

They don't necessarily trust the use of the technology ........and the acquired data. That's completely different.

They said there wasn’t capacity, so until there was tackled it differently. Yet it hasn’t stopped you getting worked up and moaning about it.
30,000 dead ....................... too fucking right I'm getting worked up........... though maybe not as much as you in your attempt to defend the governments actions at every step.

I go back to a point above - you are continuing to act like a bitter remoaner fighting lost wars.
........aaaaaand we;re back to name calling and references to losing wars.

I out you as Mark Francois !
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#52
MiW, mate, just read these last few posts back. I posted a fairly reasonable post, saying that I supported track and trace, yet mentioned a few concerns (as highlighted by those in the IT world).

Rather than take that at face value, your first action was to label them.......... and then we went downhill.

There really was no need.
 

OnLoanfromEnfield

Vital Squad Member
#53
Moonay and his friends are quite correct ... I won't be touching any App with a bargepole.

That aside, governments have a habit of overspending and delivering sub standard sh1te anyway. I once did some work on a two jags pet project .... wasted tens of millions and delivered bugger all ... His Project not me :-)

There is a firm negotiating with the government (Onfido ?) for facial recognition with an immunity passport ... their investors will have their fingers crossed.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#54
You can't help yourself, can you?

You said they should grow a pair ........... is that not lacking bollocks?

Normally, it's you who sneer at those who .......well, I'm not sure why you do ....by labelling them as snowflakes. I've never labelled anyone by that term ........I've merely suggested that those who do use it tend to be the ones who are most deserving of it.



Yay! There we go again. Assuming ( and sneering at) how someone voted in a referendum, purely to make it fit your narrative.

References to a war !!!!! Wonderful. "Shatters their dreams"? Have you heard how you sound?



No. You've created the "perceived grievance". It didn't exist before you made it up.

They don't necessarily trust the use of the technology ........and the acquired data. That's completely different.



30,000 dead ....................... too fucking right I'm getting worked up........... though maybe not as much as you in your attempt to defend the governments actions at every step.



........aaaaaand we;re back to name calling and references to losing wars.

I out you as Mark Francois !
I haven’t the time and can’t be arsed going through your points one by one. However I never mentioned snowflakes - you did. I asked for reasons why they won’t use the app - you only produced one. That reason was utter bollocks and disproportionate to the benefits so needed calling out. You mentioned Cummings and integrity - it’s abundantly clear the real reasons here so it’s a fair assumption to assume how they voted - and given you can’t let it go a fair assumption if they’re your mates they haven’t either. As for war references - stop trying to dictate the use of language - it won’t work with me and you’re better than that.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#55
Moonay and his friends are quite correct ... I won't be touching any App with a bargepole.

That aside, governments have a habit of overspending and delivering sub standard sh1te anyway. I once did some work on a two jags pet project .... wasted tens of millions and delivered bugger all ... His Project not me :-)

There is a firm negotiating with the government (Onfido ?) for facial recognition with an immunity passport ... their investors will have their fingers crossed.
Any app or just one loosely connected with Cummings? Asking for a friend.

Re government contracts I agree they rarely produce value for money.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#57
I haven’t the time and can’t be arsed going through your points one by one. However I never mentioned snowflakes - you did. I.
I've explained why.........but you seem to have moved on from the "grow a pair" statement.

I asked for reasons why they won’t use the app - you only produced one. That reason was utter bollocks and disproportionate to the benefits so needed calling out. .
I actually said "They both say it based on how data can be used, manipulated and exploited. ". The follow on sentence was my own interpretation .........that's all. I don't understand the area well enough to comment further. Do you?

You mentioned Cummings and integrity - it’s abundantly clear the real reasons here so it’s a fair assumption to assume how they voted .
No........you did it to suit your purpose. Full stop. I already told you that one has no interest in politics, (and I have no idea how - or even if - he voted in the referendum) and the other is a true blue Tory. As it happens, I do know how he voted, but I'm intrigued as to why you think he shouldn't be allowed to be sceptical of Cummings, his motives, his methods, his "business links", etc.

You immediately categorise people. Why? Regardless of your assumption, you have no idea how my mate voted.

- and given you can’t let it go a fair assumption if they’re your mates they haven’t either. .
What a small world you must live in. Do you only mate with people who share your political - national and European - ideals? How insular......and peculiar.

As for war references - stop trying to dictate the use of language - it won’t work with me and you’re better than that.
You're the one who keeps using the reference .........seems like you're now a little touchy about it. I'm not sure what you think "won't work"!

Also, I'm not trying to dictate anything ........ I'm merely commenting on it.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#58
I've explained why.........but you seem to have moved on from the "grow a pair" statement.



I actually said "They both say it based on how data can be used, manipulated and exploited. ". The follow on sentence was my own interpretation .........that's all. I don't understand the area well enough to comment further. Do you?



No........you did it to suit your purpose. Full stop. I already told you that one has no interest in politics, (and I have no idea how - or even if - he voted in the referendum) and the other is a true blue Tory. As it happens, I do know how he voted, but I'm intrigued as to why you think he shouldn't be allowed to be sceptical of Cummings, his motives, his methods, his "business links", etc.

You immediately categorise people. Why? Regardless of your assumption, you have no idea how my mate voted.



What a small world you must live in. Do you only mate with people who share your political - national and European - ideals? How insular......and peculiar.



You're the one who keeps using the reference .........seems like you're now a little touchy about it. I'm not sure what you think "won't work"!

Also, I'm not trying to dictate anything ........ I'm merely commenting on it.
Firstly I never raised snowflakes nor Cummings YOU did - so stop trying to suggest differently.

If you don’t know much about the topic why are you then offering your own interpretation of why they won’t engage with the app? And why again are you linking it with Cummings? Your own bias is coming through loud and strong here. I have mates who have varying political views, but by God they don’t moan about the government half as much as you.

As for the war references - again you felt the need to highlight them - twice in a post - so you clearly have an issue with that use of language.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#60
Firstly I never raised snowflakes nor Cummings YOU did - so stop trying to suggest differently.

If you don’t know much about the topic why are you then offering your own interpretation of why they won’t engage with the app? And why again are you linking it with Cummings? Your own bias is coming through loud and strong here. I have mates who have varying political views, but by God they don’t moan about the government half as much as you.

As for the war references - again you felt the need to highlight them - twice in a post - so you clearly have an issue with that use of language.
You said they should "grow a pair". I posted "snowflakes" with a question mark. If you weren't calling them that, then fine. Why so touchy?

I gave you their reasons. I couldn't elaborate further, so, I gave you my interpretation.

I linked it to Cummings because of what I posted in my initial post in this unnecessary bickering.:
However, does anyone else have concerns over how the data might be used (beyond tracing) and the links, through Cummings' sidekick Warner, the link to his brother's company and the still outstanding issue re the usage of data by Leave EU?
Simple really.

As for the rest .........if you have mates with different political views, why on earth would you assume I didn't?

As for war references, how does highlighting equate to dictating? I admit, I find it distasteful ............. but feel free to carry on using them ....... and I'll in turn carry on pointing them out to be distasteful.

.:shrug: