So what next? Who stays? Who goes? Who comes in? | Page 12 | Vital Football

So what next? Who stays? Who goes? Who comes in?

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I’d be happy if we just got 3 really solid quality signings, especially a genuine top class PL striker.

Even if these just paper over the cracks of a poor squad which has been badly organised and doesn’t set up to play to its strikers strengths, that would be fine as long as we stay up with a margin of comfort. We can build from there - relegation needs to be avoided at all costs as it’s impact on overall progression is devastating.

That way the club has time to invest in the squad and coaching staff as required and not make reactive short term decisions which carry too much risk.

People talk about loyalty. I’m sorry but there’s no such thing in football now. It’s big business and high stakes, there is no bloody loyalty anymore. You perform, you improve or you get replaced. It’s the club I’m loyal to - it’s current servants are all replaceable in the mid term I’m afraid.

All eyes at this stage on the owners - enough talk now, show me your ambition.
 
I think there needs to be some realism. We need quality, that's for sure, we're not going to get top class, but it's worth a try. The last time a bottom half club in this league signed a genuinely top class striker was Middlesbrough in 1996 with Ravanelli. It's a pretty rare event.

We need to be signing the next Drogba, i.e. someone who is pretty proven at a good level (like he was prior to signing for Chelsea). That's just far more realistic. Genuine top class in this day and age is like £70m+.
 
Tierney said:
I'll be honest @DeanoVilla, it was your opening post that has made me think of mine that I've constructed in my head the past few days because I felt you were on the wind up too with your desire to basically buy a brand new starting XI. You mentioned 8 signings and although, I'm unsure on the midfield quotes, I trust you to have the vision that any addition needs to improve the starting XI and not be a bench improver. Buying 8 new starters is in that ever-popular phrase, "doing a Fulham" in my mind.
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In the last 10 summer transfer windows we've brought in 81 players. An average of 8.1 per summer window.

So signing 8 isn't doing a Fulham at all, it's doing a Villa (or doing what most clubs do every year).

I agree that we conceded a lot of goals from silly individual errors. What I don't get is why you'd want to keep faith in the same individuals who keep on making those silly mistakes.

If this season taught us anything its that...

Our full backs aren't good enough.

Mings would benefit by playing alongside an experienced partner.

Our front 3 are completely woeful. (no matter which variation we play)

That to me is 6 priority signings right there.

I then talk about selling nakamba and Engels and replacing with better alternatives. Squad players are fine, but they have to be good enough to step in when called upon and I'm not sure either of those are.

It depends on how much ambition these owners have I suppose, but if you can keep the core of Heaton, mings, Luiz, McGinn and Grealish, then add 6 players of similar quality I gaurentee we'll have a better season than if we just go again with players we've seen aren't good enough.
 
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Bringing six into the starting 11 puts us right back to starting from scratch without a decent pre-season IMO.

Agree 100% about our front line but apart from someone to start ahead of Hourihane at CM I think meaningful competition to our back four rather than replacement will see a more gradual evolution one way or another.

In terms of guaranteed starters to come in, that would be 1 striker, 1 WF (assuming Jack is the other), 1 right footed CM to compliment McGinn and then stiff competition across the back four.

I'm genuinely excited to see how Konsa + Ming's develop as a partnership but yep Targett and Guilbert need pushing.
 
The existing squad can, just about compete with most sides in the division. 3-4 quality additions that aren't afraid of the ball and can keep it and pass to one of our players would transform some of the other players in the squad. Don't know who, where or how but we need quality and some of the U23s to step up and make the transition. Greenwood? Manure is 18 isn't he?
 
This squad can compete with most in the division insofar as it can show up on the day, that's about it, we bested 3 sides only and only put 35 points on the board. There's quite a bit to do. 4 relatively quality additions should hopefully push us up a few places to comfortable bottom half for the coming season, anything else is a massive bonus.

It's really going to be very interesting to see the sorts of players we bid for and ultimately who we recruit.
 
yep seems a bit odd that the squad that survived with one of the lowest points total ever is deemed 'competitive'.
We need to add players of Heaton/Grealish standard to go straight into the starting 11

Suppose we'll see where the ambition of the owners is soon enough
 
DeanoVilla said:
In the last 10 summer transfer windows we've brought in 81 players. An average of 8.1 per summer window.

So signing 8 isn't doing a Fulham at all, it's doing a Villa (or doing what most clubs do every year).

I agree that we conceded a lot of goals from silly individual errors. What I don't get is why you'd want to keep faith in the same individuals who keep on making those silly mistakes.

If this season taught us anything its that...

Our full backs aren't good enough.

Mings would benefit by playing alongside an experienced partner.

Our front 3 are completely woeful. (no matter which variation we play)

That to me is 6 priority signings right there.

I then talk about selling nakamba and Engels and replacing with better alternatives. Squad players are fine, but they have to be good enough to step in when called upon and I'm not sure either of those are.

It depends on how much ambition these owners have I suppose, but if you can keep the core of Heaton, mings, Luiz, McGinn and Grealish, then add 6 players of similar quality I gaurentee we'll have a better season than if we just go again with players we've seen aren't good enough.
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8 signings a year on average... that’s shocking and just shows how horribly we’ve lurched from one position to the next season after season and why we’ve gone from near the top of the league to relegation and then 3 years in the championship
 
BringbakMON said:
yep seems a bit odd that the squad that survived with one of the lowest points total ever is deemed 'competitive'.
We need to add players of Heaton/Grealish standard to go straight into the starting 11

Suppose we'll see where the ambition of the owners is soon enough
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TBH, I'm a little disappointed we haven't got one in, or almost in already.

Surely we should of had a shopping list, plan A and plan B. We've stopped up, so that's plan A.

We should of been implimenting the plan already and been all over target 1 like a rash!
 
Any player coming in has to be an upgrade for who they are replacing otherwise what's the point.

We need quality but that doesn't come cheap so this will be an intriguing transfer window particularly with a new sports director?
 
Pride of Lions said:
TBH, I'm a little disappointed we haven't got one in, or almost in already.

Surely we should of had a shopping list, plan A and plan B. We've stopped up, so that's plan A.

We should of been implimenting the plan already and been all over target 1 like a rash!
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No one has done any business yet to speak of. A week or so's break and I would expect things to start moving
 
david-avfc said:
Great post only disagreement for me is I think we need a defensive midfielder rather than a creative one because Luiz is more of a deep-playmaker rather than a tough tackler which I think we need, and I also think we need an experienced centre back to compliment Konsa and Mings but completely agree with you on full back cover I don’t understand how anyone could think a sub left back is a top priority for a club in our position
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I can see the argument for this. I think it all depends on the approach Smith plans to play out and that dictates who plays the holding role. Just to give a scope of some of the different defensive midfielders I can recall in my lifetime: Keane (Gattuso, Vieira), Makelele (Fernandinho, Kante), Pirlo (Carrick, Schweinsteiger). All very adept in the role but all do it with a different style.

However, it was our lack of creativity to carve chances after the restart that concerned me, hence leaning more in that direction to upgrade our midfield.
 
DeanoVilla said:
In the last 10 summer transfer windows we've brought in 81 players. An average of 8.1 per summer window.

So signing 8 isn't doing a Fulham at all, it's doing a Villa (or doing what most clubs do every year).

I agree that we conceded a lot of goals from silly individual errors. What I don't get is why you'd want to keep faith in the same individuals who keep on making those silly mistakes.

If this season taught us anything its that...

Our full backs aren't good enough.

Mings would benefit by playing alongside an experienced partner.

Our front 3 are completely woeful. (no matter which variation we play)

That to me is 6 priority signings right there.

I then talk about selling nakamba and Engels and replacing with better alternatives. Squad players are fine, but they have to be good enough to step in when called upon and I'm not sure either of those are.

It depends on how much ambition these owners have I suppose, but if you can keep the core of Heaton, mings, Luiz, McGinn and Grealish, then add 6 players of similar quality I gaurentee we'll have a better season than if we just go again with players we've seen aren't good enough.
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And how many of those past 10 summer windows have you been happy with?! As @david-avfc follows up, 8 signings to improve the starting XI, which is once again what I'm saying has to be done to take us up to 10th-14th, is too much turnover. I appreciate you're not saying all 8 will be starters, but I don't see the concept of buying back-ups. Improve your XI and let those they've replaced become the replacements.

For context as to why buying 8 is extreme, last summer, Burnley and Southampton made 4 summer acquisitions, Brighton, Palace and Newcastle made 5; West Ham only did 6 (and two of those were back-up goalkeepers!). That was on in an affluent, non-condensed window. We may have averaged 8 signings a summer window for 10 years but they occurred over a 10 week summer and that doesn't exist this season; this summer window is different to any we've previously encountered.

I do have some faith in that backline, yes; you, however, want to dismiss them all except the player who, according to the Premier League website, was at fault for errors leading to a goal more than anyone else in our squad!

Finally, you mentioned all combinations of our front three have been woeful? Who are you saying is Player of the Season then? ;)
 
Tierney said:
I can see the argument for this. I think it all depends on the approach Smith plans to play out and that dictates who plays the holding role. Just to give a scope of some of the different defensive midfielders I can recall in my lifetime: Keane (Gattuso, Vieira), Makelele (Fernandinho, Kante), Pirlo (Carrick, Schweinsteiger). All very adept in the role but all do it with a different style.

However, it was our lack of creativity to carve chances after the restart that concerned me, hence leaning more in that direction to upgrade our midfield.
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If we carry on with (and hopefully get better at) the whole team pressing then an out-and-out destroyer isn't necessary. Dougie has shown since the break that he can get us out of a sticky situation when a team breaks plus his passing from deep is going to be a thing of beauty if we can hold on to him.
 
Tierney said:
And how many of those past 10 summer windows have you been happy with?! As @david-avfc follows up, 8 signings to improve the starting XI, which is once again what I'm saying has to be done to take us up to 10th-14th, is too much turnover. I appreciate you're not saying all 8 will be starters, but I don't see the concept of buying back-ups. Improve your XI and let those they've replaced become the replacements.
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I agree with this, I'd clarify it by saying sometimes a player isnt ready but it is the intent that they will be a starter or challenge the starter in the near future.

For me, its 5 signings max, 3 of standout quality relative to what they're replacing, 1 who will improve the team and then 1 who is a longer-term signing. I personally think its strength down the spine and right-sided wide player. The last signing is a wildcard either at fullback, on the wings or in midfield.

If we get a real quality striker I think between Wesley, Davis and Samatta we'll be fine.
 
Who ever we get, I hope they are top class athletes. Too often our players are whacked way before the 90 minutes is up. We need players with energy and stamina. That alone would take some of the load off Jack.

When our new gym is finished that should help a bit as well.
 
McParlandTheGreat said:
Who ever we get, I hope they are top class athletes. Too often our players are whacked way before the 90 minutes is up. We need players with energy and stamina. That alone would take some of the load off Jack.

When our new gym is finished that should help a bit as well.
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Yes, our record for conceding late goals is hysterical. I don't find it an excuse for professional players to not last 90 minutes, but if our gym wasn't up to scratch that sends a message in itself I'd say.

A small but massive decision by our owners already that should pay for itself. Without starting the bellends on here off again (lol) Bielsa made Leeds install a running track at their training ground, I honestly don't see why that isn't a training ground necessity for all professional clubs myself.
 
Quality is what we need this time, please Dean.

For me we desperately need a ‘right winger’. Someone with pace who can cut in from the wing and score, a mo Salah type. Domenico Berardi from Italy would do, 14 goals in 30 last season, with 10 assists. Sassuolo didn’t make Europe (as far as I know) so could be convinced to come... 30m?

A central midfielder; Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg from saints? A little ambitious maybe, as he’s probably eyeing a spurs move, but if we move quick who knows... 25 - 30m?

A Striker, someone who can score a goal or 20. I’d be happy with Tammy back or Mitrovtic... Probably looking at 30 - 40m

Ryan Fraser is available. I’d take him all day long. Would give us something different from the left if we needed it.

If we could find a decent left back thatll be great, no idea who though!

In my dreams we’d line up next year as:

Heaton
Guilbert Konsa Mings Targett
Dougie
Hojbjerg SJM
Berardi Grealish
Tammy
 
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