So, whadda we gonna moan abart? | Page 3 | Vital Football

So, whadda we gonna moan abart?

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#41
post articles behind a newspaper firewall
Yep, agree with that. That shouldn’t happen again.

leak possible future strategies to individual journalists
You’re obviously aware why this happens, so not sure why you see this as an issue. It’s done in this instance to reduce shock, provide conditioning to the announcements and allow time before announcements to address any major issues that may not have been considered.

- go on TV and suggest that one of the options open to the Government is to sit tight, do little, and let folk die.
In any decision making process doing nothing is an option. In this instance they haven’t decided to do little or let folk die, nor have they gone on tv to say so. They have been honest and transparent that people will die as is the nature of the disease but have outlined a strategy for dealing with the crisis. Far better than going all comical Ali and pretending all will be well.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#42
......You’re obviously aware why this happens, so not sure why you see this as an issue. It’s done in this instance to reduce shock, provide conditioning to the announcements and allow time before announcements to address any major issues that may not have been considered........
In normal circumstances, yes, of course. On this specific subject, I think it's atrocious. In a case of national emergency (which is basically what it is), chucking a line out to see what bites is hardly a proper strategy

......In any decision making process doing nothing is an option. In this instance they haven’t decided to do little or let folk die, nor have they gone on tv to say so. They have been honest and transparent that people will die as is the nature of the disease but have outlined a strategy for dealing with the crisis. Far better than going all comical Ali and pretending all will be well.
It's an option which would be immediately discarded ....... so hardly "an option".

No problem with the honesty, I just wish there was more of it .....both from a frequency and a qty point of view.

Not sure why you slip in the Comical Ali reference ........ that was your mate Trump's initial line wan't it? He proves himself to be more of a moron each passing day.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#43
In normal circumstances, yes, of course. On this specific subject, I think it's atrocious. In a case of national emergency (which is basically what it is), chucking a line out to see what bites is hardly a proper strategy
National emergency, yep it is. Given this they aren’t looking for a bite, they are doing it to condition the public for the announcements ahead, rather than giving it to them dry so to speak.

It's an option which would be immediately discarded ....... so hardly "an option".
But it’s still an option so will have to be considered, however briefly.

No problem with the honesty, I just wish there was more of it .....both from a frequency and a qty point of view.
I get the daily frequently bit. In fact they are doing but not formally. Personally I tho k there should be a daily brief but not necessarily with the PM, health secretary. As for quantity, it importa t to get key information across not lose it in a raft of other info than does t really add a lot. I get the thirst for information but I also understand there is a need not to overwhelm and perhaps create unnecessary panic.

Not sure why you slip in the Comical Ali reference ........ that was your mate Trump's initial line wan't it? He proves himself to be more of a moron each passing day.
My mate Trump??? The reference was about the government being honest, not lying to the public. And yes he is a moron, but there’s not a great deal we can do about that. Though I will say his travel ban is sensible and something we perhaps should have done.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#44
Behind the Telegraph paywall Moonay, but it appears there will be daily briefings. Article also suggests authorities will have powers to detain and isolate sufferers, compel those suspected of having it to testing and issue fines for non compliance. School closures again mentioned so I suspect will be announced this week.


“From Monday Boris Johnson and senior ministers will hold daily press conferences on the coronavirus pandemic, supported by scientific and medical experts including the Chief Medical Office and Chief Scientific Adviser.
The press conferences form part of the government’s commitment to clarity and transparency in order to ensure British people are fully informed about the steps they can take to protect themselves and others.
A Downing Street spokesman said: “The Prime Minister and this Government are committed to keeping the public informed every step of the way about what we’re doing to fight the spread of coronavirus, when we’re doing it and why we’re doing it.
“At all times we will be led by science to bring forward the right responses at the right time to this global pandemic.”
 

Lazysid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#45
The fact that Germany are holding on to sanitary products they export to other EE countries just in case their own stocks run down just highlights how pathetic the EE actually is.
Unlike the US...
The Trump administration has offered a German medical company “large sums of money” for exclusive access to a Covid-19 vaccine, German media have reported.

The German government is trying to fight off what it sees as an aggressive takeover bid by the US, the broadsheet Die Welt reports, citing German government circles.

The US president had offered the Tübingen-based biopharmaceutical company CureVac “large sums of money” to gain exclusive access to their work, wrote Die Welt.

According to an anonymous source quoted in the newspaper, Trump was doing everything to secure a vaccine against the coronavirus for the US, “but for the US only”.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#46
According to the press preview on Sky the Guardian are reporting PHE are saying this will go on for over 12 months. Forget football re starting or finishing the season. I suspect a great number of clubs will fold in that time, quite possibly ours included. It’s not inconceivable that we may have witnessed our last ever match in the clubs current guise. In the grand scheme it seems relatively immaterial but sad nonetheless.
 

C_Latic

Vital Squad Member
#47
According to the press preview on Sky the Guardian are reporting PHE are saying this will go on for over 12 months. Forget football re starting or finishing the season. I suspect a great number of clubs will fold in that time, quite possibly ours included. It’s not inconceivable that we may have witnessed our last ever match in the clubs current guise. In the grand scheme it seems relatively immaterial but sad nonetheless.
I can't see that happening to us. Yes our club will have to make tough decisions if the absolute worst case scenario comes to fruition and this isn't sorted by the end of the year. Many jobs within the club will be lost and we will be relying on our contracted players to accept termination, or that bigger clubs buy the likes of Gelhardt in summer even without any football on the horizon (I suspect a few big vultures will come out to play during the summer to take advantage of the struggling clubs.

We're not in debt as far as I know so HMRC shouldn't come calling. The key will be if we find ourselves in a situation where the club has run out of its own funds, whether Stanley Choi is willing to keep funding whatever wages and bills need paying. If he isn't and wants rid of us (understandable), then I truly believe Dave Whelan/David Sharpe would step in rather than let us go up the wall.

That's my big worry Latics wise in all of this, any financial struggle we come across over the coming months will force us to sell Gelhardt on the cheap just to pay the bills. I remember us doing the same and pinching Victor Moses from Crystal Palace for a pittance when they went into administration and had to find some quick cash. Graham Kavanagh as well and what a signing he turned out to be!
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#48
National emergency, yep it is. Given this they aren’t looking for a bite, they are doing it to condition the public for the announcements ahead, rather than giving it to them dry so to speak..........
So.........we're being "lubed up" for a rogering ? :oops:

......But it’s still an option so will have to be considered, however briefly.........
I would agree ......................... if the buffoon hadn't voiced the consideration on bloody morning TV.

........I get the daily frequently bit. In fact they are doing but not formally. Personally I tho k there should be a daily brief but not necessarily with the PM, health secretary. As for quantity, it importa t to get key information across not lose it in a raft of other info than does t really add a lot. I get the thirst for information but I also understand there is a need not to overwhelm and perhaps create unnecessary panic...........
As Burnham said, medical info should be given by medical specialists. Fauci in the States has been excellent. As for panic, in the absence of anything formal, people are creating their own. Just look at the state of the pictures from shops whose shelves have been unnecessarily stripped.

.......My mate Trump??? The reference was about the government being honest, not lying to the public. And yes he is a moron, but there’s not a great deal we can do about that. Though I will say his travel ban is sensible and something we perhaps should have done.
You've defended him before, but yep, a cheap shot, I apologise.

Behind the Telegraph paywall Moonay, but it appears there will be daily briefings. Article also suggests authorities will have powers to detain and isolate sufferers, compel those suspected of having it to testing and issue fines for non compliance. School closures again mentioned so I suspect will be announced this week..........

..........A Downing Street spokesman said ...........
Don't you agree that it's a disgraceful option to communicate such important information. It could be taken as a cynical ploy to gain the Telegraph more readers, who will then get all the other stuff they print too. Any road, I thought the Government were trying to condition us ........... or is it just a certain target audience?

By the way, "a Downing St spokesman", in such an important time is unacceptable. Is it Cummings? Why the hell can't they name the "spokesman"? It's really quite pathetic.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#51
So.........we're being "lubed up" for a rogering ?
Sales of sex toys have gone up for a reason. 😳


As Burnham said, medical info should be given by medical specialists. Fauci in the States has been excellent. As for panic, in the absence of anything formal, people are creating their own. Just look at the state of the pictures from shops whose shelves have been unnecessarily stripped.
Well to be fair there has been the chief medical and scientist at the press conferences. If it helps reassure they need to increase the number of them to spread the burden.

As for the shops, tell me about it. People panicking fuelled by social media.

Don't you agree that it's a disgraceful option to communicate such important information. It could be taken as a cynical ploy to gain the Telegraph more readers, who will then get all the other stuff they print too. Any road, I thought the Government were trying to condition us ........... or is it just a certain target audience?
As I said it’s preparing the public for the official announcements as it reduces the shock. Given The Telegraph is supportive of the government I understand why it’s going through there, they just don’t have the same relationship with Guardian journalists for example and I suspect there is a level of distrust. The other publications soon pick it up and run with it anyway.

By the way, "a Downing St spokesman", in such an important time is unacceptable. Is it Cummings? Why the hell can't they name the "spokesman"? It's really quite pathetic.
It’s because the announcement isn’t yet official, nothing sinister in it. Besides if it was Cummings you’d probably have summat negative to say about that!
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#52
Sales of sex toys have gone up for a reason. 😳

:clap::clap::clap:


Well to be fair there has been the chief medical and scientist at the press conferences. If it helps reassure they need to increase the number of them to spread the burden.

As for the shops, tell me about it. People panicking fuelled by social media.

I agree ........ but maybe a more holistic, inclusive comms plan might have avoided some of the fuelling.

As I said it’s preparing the public for the official announcements as it reduces the shock. Given The Telegraph is supportive of the government I understand why it’s going through there, they just don’t have the same relationship with Guardian journalists for example and I suspect there is a level of distrust. The other publications soon pick it up and run with it anyway.

As I said before, I can see your/the logic ....... but to do it though one newspaper, which has a firewall just seems irresponsible. Yes, of course, all the other media will get the story eventually and run with it, but that isn't the point. A Government shouldn't have such a selective distribution method for (what should be) it's nationwide comms.

It’s because the announcement isn’t yet official, nothing sinister in it. Besides if it was Cummings you’d probably have summat negative to say about that!

You're right ...... I would ......because what possible authority does Cummings have in this scenario. He's an "advisor". He carries no authority whatsoever ........ neither as a Minister, nor as an expert. I understand the tactics of "conditioning" and "spinning" in normal circumstances, .......but now? ........at a time where folk think they're going to shit theirselves to death?!............through bingeing on pasta!? It seems to me that a little more responsibility and accountability are called for.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#53
Think the formatting has gone awry there.

Re comms stopping panicking buying - somehow I suspect not. Irresponsible media reporting and social media hysteria has fuelled it and half wits believe this stuff. Drove past aldi on buckshaw earlier - people were queuing to get on the car park. Madness.

Important info re the firewall - I agree that is unacceptable. As you say it’s not business as usual and perhaps that’s been overlooked. If Cummings is employed by government then I’ve no issue if he’s asked to speak on their behalf. I will say that the media has to be responsible in what it reports to avoid fuelling this unnecessary panic and hysteria. I know they do it to create hits and increase ad revenue but it’s totally irresponsible.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#54
Think the formatting has gone awry there.
I was just being lazy .......I applauded your first point, then all my other responses were in italics, following the relevant point.

Re comms stopping panicking buying - somehow I suspect not. Irresponsible media reporting and social media hysteria has fuelled it and half wits believe this stuff. Drove past aldi on buckshaw earlier - people were queuing to get on the car park. Madness.
.
"Don't panic buy" ....."There's no need" ...... "Only idiots hoard" ........ I'd have thought Cummings would have come up with one of these by now.

I'm due to go shopping after dinner (as I do every week) ........ but there's no bloody way I'm queuing to get on any car park !

Important info re the firewall - I agree that is unacceptable. As you say it’s not business as usual and perhaps that’s been overlooked. If Cummings is employed by government then I’ve no issue if he’s asked to speak on their behalf. I will say that the media has to be responsible in what it reports to avoid fuelling this unnecessary panic and hysteria. I know they do it to create hits and increase ad revenue but it’s totally irresponsible.
I agree re the media needing to be responsible, but I presume you see my point re Cummings. He has zero expertise in this area, and other than structuring the comms plan (which he's made a reet pigs ear of so far), he should be nowhere near the detail.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#55
I was just being lazy .......I applauded your first point, then all my other responses were in italics, following the relevant point.



"Don't panic buy" ....."There's no need" ...... "Only idiots hoard" ........ I'd have thought Cummings would have come up with one of these by now.

I'm due to go shopping after dinner (as I do every week) ........ but there's no bloody way I'm queuing to get on any car park !



I agree re the media needing to be responsible, but I presume you see my point re Cummings. He has zero expertise in this area, and other than structuring the comms plan (which he's made a reet pigs ear of so far), he should be nowhere near the detail.
I’ve not seen any evidence Cummings is anywhere near the detail. This is an unprecedented situation, to expect a perfect response without bumps along the road is naive.

Just been listening to 5 live. Had some bloke on in his 70’s arguing he should be allowed out as he’s physically fit.(apparently has had shit on twitter so you probably know him 😉) Barnett was somewhat exasperated in trying to tell him that the stats says people in that age group are extremely vulnerable and it has nothing to do with fitness, it’s to do with biology, fact you have lower white blood cells to fight it etc. He just wouldn’t have it or understand it. Sadly I suspect it’ll need thousands to die before the message will get through to some. She’s now arguing the same point with David Blunkett.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#56
I’ve not seen any evidence Cummings is anywhere near the detail. This is an unprecedented situation, to expect a perfect response without bumps along the road is naive.
I hadn't suggested that he was. I merely said that "a Downing St source" was wrong. You're the one who's said you wouldn't have a problem with him being the source. Personally, I think he should be nowhere near any of this.

I don't expect a "perfect response" ........... just summat better than what we've had.

...Just been listening to 5 live. Had some bloke on in his 70’s arguing he should be allowed out as he’s physically fit.(apparently has had shit on twitter so you probably know him 😉) Barnett was somewhat exasperated in trying to tell him that the stats says people in that age group are extremely vulnerable and it has nothing to do with fitness, it’s to do with biology, fact you have lower white blood cells to fight it etc. He just wouldn’t have it or understand it. Sadly I suspect it’ll need thousands to die before the message will get through to some. She’s now arguing the same point with David Blunkett.
Yep. Some folk just won't listen. Think they know it all. Its almost as if they don't believe the experts.

Deja vu?
:whist:
;)
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital 1st Team Regular
#57
At this point the biggest problem is all those people trying to make political capital, attract clicks, sell papers, get attention etc by whipping up hysteria and division. There are some absolutely dreadful people abusing their platforms at a time like this.

We are in unprecidented circumstances, we've so far had less cases and deaths than many other places by following the advice of the country's chief medical and chief science officers - 2 people significantly more qualified and informed of things than all of the politicians, celebs, activitsts, pundits etc telling us they are wrong. This is a very specific level of expertise, it's beyond politics so under the circumstnaces if anyone is going to devise the best strategy it will be them and the people claiming to know better on Twitter are largely just poisioning the well.

There is of course a risk to our elderly and people with underlying conditions that should be taken seriously, but the majority of people who in this country are going to be low risk and recover from it but the way it's being talked about by some you'd think we were having a zombie apocolypse where everyone is super high risk. How many people on the clips of panic 10 packs of toilet rolls and hand santitizer buying are in the high risk category? Maybe they are buying so much to give one each to all their elderly neighbours who can't get any - but i wouldn't count on it. Chances are all they are doing is hurting those elderly, high risk people who can't drive, don't know how to shop on line, can't stand in long quews for hours and only go to their local shop once a week and now they can't get the things they need.

No matter what the government says the counter narrative will influence people. I wish all these games could stop for a bit for once and we try and avoid making a very difficult situation which is understandably going to be scary for many people into a much worse sitaution that is making people terrified and act in counter productive ways that make the situation needlessly worse.
 
Last edited:

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#58
Don't you think though KDZ that the Government's own comms should have been far better?

There's no defending of the panic buying - full stop - but I haven't seen that much "whipping up hysteria". Not on twitter or elsewhere. There may be some misunderstanding and frustration that if we in the UK are going down a different track to other countries, then a) why, b) what will it mean, and c) how will we know if it's working or not.

Stuff like that would (I'd have thought) be fairly simple to communicate. Maybe that's what we're in lien for this afternoon.
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital 1st Team Regular
#59
Don't you think though KDZ that the Government's own comms should have been far better?

There's no defending of the panic buying - full stop - but I haven't seen that much "whipping up hysteria". Not on twitter or elsewhere. There may be some misunderstanding and frustration that if we in the UK are going down a different track to other countries, then a) why, b) what will it mean, and c) how will we know if it's working or not.

Stuff like that would (I'd have thought) be fairly simple to communicate. Maybe that's what we're in lien for this afternoon.
I've already said I think government haven't communicated effectively but that seems accross the board in other countries too from what I've heard.

But make no mistake there is plenty of hysteria and division being drummed up like there always is on anything. Considering how cynical that type of behaviour is the rest of the time on issues a lot less difficult to understand than this, the way they are carrying on suggests they see this in the same way - something to exploit.
 
Last edited:

Arthur_Itis

Vital Reserves Team
#60
I've already said I think government haven't communicated effectively but that seems accross the board in other countries too from what I've heard.

But make no mistake there is plenty of hysteria and division being drummed up like there always is on anything. Considering how cynical that type of behaviour is the rest of the time on issues a lot less difficult to understand than this, the way they are carrying on suggests they see this in the same way - something to exploit.
If you think it's bad now KDZ wait till it all dies down (next year ?) then we'll get the inevitable political witch hunt and endless calls for inquiries into the "mis-handling", just so people or parties can further their own political agenda's. Bloody hate politicians.