So, whadda we gonna moan abart? | Page 26 | Vital Football

So, whadda we gonna moan abart?

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
MiW. Mate. They're different issues. I haven't negatively commented on his company. At all.



We're not going to agree, so lets leave it there.

You still didn't answer my question though re UK being behind the EU (if it were the same Supplier). Obviously, if Dyson come up trumps (within a few weeks), then great ......... but they might not.
The issues are intertwined, but you haven’t offered it (Dyson) praise for stepping up either. Oh and he’s making 50% extra too, 4000 of which it seems he’s sending abroad for gratis (apparently). But he lives in Singapore so he must be a tosser.

I didn’t answer as it unknown. We could be behind, we could be ahead, who knows it depends on what’s on the table. If we are ahead would it be acknowledged? I doubt it. Dyson reckons his ventilators will start to be delivered in about 5 - 6 weeks, which given he was asked ten days ago dovetails with the government measures.
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
Yet he does believe we’re better off and it seems it’s inhibiting you from affording his company credit for stepping up to the plate in these desperate times.



They don’t have a choice given the money they receive. Which you obviously know, hence my comment.
Re your 'inhibiting you from affording his company credit'.........Moonay did I feed give praise to Dyson a few posts ago....saying 'excellent' for him deciding to go ahead with production. As to the rest of your argument with him it's merely an offshoot of Brexit imo & your both splitting hairs. If anyonewants to make a difference during this difficult period then why not volunteer for the 'GoodSAM' it may make a difference. I have the link if anyone wants it, only takes about 5/10 mins to apply.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
1. The issues aren't intertwined ...... they're completely separate. My point was all to do with collaborative procurement.

2. I've neither praised nor criticised Dyson in this conversation (why should I?). ?? I've merely cast doubt on the timeliness of the Dyson production to rescue our current situation.

3. Don't put words in my mouth.

4. I answered your specific question. You're trying to change the status of mine to you. You don't want to answer it as stated, as you know that there's no real answer. It's a cop out to say "who knows?"

5. Why are you trying to defend Dyson's timeline? I've not criticised it at all. It would be fantastic if it'a as you state. However, it might do sweet FA to help us through our current crisis.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
If anyonewants to make a difference during this difficult period then why not volunteer for the 'GoodSAM' it may make a difference. I have the link if anyone wants it, only takes about 5/10 mins to apply.
I will Jock, as soon as I'm out of isolation. My lad's bosses son's friend (yes, I know how daft that sounds) thought he had it, so effective lockdown for the last few days. I think all looks ok though.

500.000 volunteers already !!! :clap::clap::clap:
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
On a sidenote MiW / Moonay - don't know if uz are getting this but whilst your debating Dyson on here I'm getting pop up adverts for the new Dyson.....twilight zone eh!!!!
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
On a sidenote MiW / Moonay - don't know if uz are getting this but whilst your debating Dyson on here I'm getting pop up adverts for the new Dyson.....twilight zone eh!!!!
Don't buy it Jock. The quality will be poor. They're concentrating all their effort on ventilators.
;)

Night night from me.
:yawning:
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
I will Jock, as soon as I'm out of isolation. My lad's bosses son's friend (yes, I know how daft that sounds) thought he had it, so effective lockdown for the last few days. I think all looks ok though.

500.000 volunteers already !!! :clap::clap::clap:

I know, all this friend of a friend's mothers brother isolation stuff is confusing but better to be safe as they say. I'm just waiting my clearance to hopefully give some assistance where needed.
On another note got an email from a company I do some work for ( Compass) who are offering lots of work in local/ish (Whiston, St.Helens n few other) Hospitals, from porters to domestic nurses with immediate starts.
 

hindleymonwafc

Vital 1st Team Regular
Don't buy it Jock. The quality will be poor. They're concentrating all their effort on ventilators.
;)

Night night from me.
:yawning:
Early Boris and Trump bashing on Twitter ?.... I didn't realise how much Brexit had deeply hurt you. Even though you're in lockdown you can go for a walk you know. Go on, tear yourself away from the internet...you never know, you may enjoy it.
 

hindleymonwafc

Vital 1st Team Regular
Just read that last post again moonay and it sounds a bit harsh..I dont mean to be. I've always liked you and your posts and still do but to be so fixated on dislike is beneath you in my opinion, it seems a waste. Hatred is so not worth the energy whoever it's directed at.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
Early Boris and Trump bashing on Twitter ?.... I didn't realise how much Brexit had deeply hurt you. Even though you're in lockdown you can go for a walk you know. Go on, tear yourself away from the internet...you never know, you may enjoy it.
Ey up......morning everyone.

??? Where/how have I been bashing Johnson? Other than explaining why I thought he'd have been assassinated, where/how've I been bashing Trump?

Not really sure why you mention Brexit. I don't think it's been mentioned much other than in the Dyson/ventilator context. That wasn't so much about Brexit as the benefits of the EU ......... or any cooperative group.

Yesterday, I mowed my mum's lawns as well as mine, and pruned the front hedge. I'm fine ......... though thanks for thinking about me. :thumbup:

Just read that last post again moonay and it sounds a bit harsh..I dont mean to be. I've always liked you and your posts and still do but to be so fixated on dislike is beneath you in my opinion, it seems a waste. Hatred is so not worth the energy whoever it's directed at.
No worries .... not harsh at all ....... just puzzling.

You seem to have a memory that can set things to one side, so that you conveniently forget about them when you're commenting on someone else's actions.......... you know, so it doesn't look like hypocrisy. Have a look at some of your posts to Notts. ;)

Listen, we all get passionate about things. It doesn't mean we have a fixation. That said, I explained - in direct response to your questions - my dislike of some of the prominent figures in the news. Don't worry though. Nowt's going to blow. I have some very good relief valves ........... spouting bollocks on here being one of them. :giggle:

Any road, be careful when you're dragging yourself out of them bushes, after following Mrs Hindleymon in there on one of your "dog walks".
;)
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
1. The issues aren't intertwined ...... they're completely separate. My point was all to do with collaborative procurement.

2. I've neither praised nor criticised Dyson in this conversation (why should I?). ?? I've merely cast doubt on the timeliness of the Dyson production to rescue our current situation.

3. Don't put words in my mouth.

4. I answered your specific question. You're trying to change the status of mine to you. You don't want to answer it as stated, as you know that there's no real answer. It's a cop out to say "who knows?"

5. Why are you trying to defend Dyson's timeline? I've not criticised it at all. It would be fantastic if it'a as you state. However, it might do sweet FA to help us through our current crisis.
1. I’m aware of collective procurement. The EU is already a body, there’s no new agreement entered into with distribution parameters set. You’ve yet to answer how ventilators will be distributed within the EU given how certain countries, the powers within it, have already refused to hand over medical supplies or how we would benefit from that.

2. Why should you praise Dyson? Perhaps because he’s delivered a prototype of a life saving product and his company is now manufacturing them in this time of desperate need. But instead his decision to relocate part of his business and his view on Brexit seems more important.

3. ?

4. As you said you asked a question with no real answer - so it was answered with who knows. What other possible hypothetical answer are you looking for?

5. I’m not defending his timeline, merely pointing out what he’s said it is. This fits in with the national strategy of delaying infections so these products are available when those infections happens. It’s a plan, a reasonable one, so let’s hope it doesn’t amount to sweet FA.

To be honest Moonay I’d expect more enthusiasm from you and recognition of national effort. I hope you’re feeling well. ✌️
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
1. I’m aware of collective procurement. The EU is already a body, there’s no new agreement entered into with distribution parameters set. You’ve yet to answer how ventilators will be distributed within the EU given how certain countries, the powers within it, have already refused to hand over medical supplies or how we would benefit from that.
It's quite simple. (Phew.... I was going to finish that sentence with "just like you". Good job I didn't ;)). The procurement of ventilators (as I've said) will have the provisional allocation set out up front ...... I'd imagine with an option to alter it, should circumstances have changed upon delivery. This is the 3rd (I think) time I've said this.

The refusal to move about between countries any existing assets, already owned by specific nations is another thing altogether.

2. Why should you praise Dyson? Perhaps because he’s delivered a prototype of a life saving product and his company is now manufacturing them in this time of desperate need. But instead his decision to relocate part of his business and his view on Brexit seems more important.
He hasn't delivered a prototype yet, as far as I'm aware.......and yet again, I'm not criticising him, at all, whatsoever. Just because I have in the past is completely irrelevant. It's nothing to do with this current issue.

It was the line "he lives in Singapore, so he must be a tosser".

4. As you said you asked a question with no real answer - so it was answered with who knows. What other possible hypothetical answer are you looking for?
OK ...... but maybe an acknowledgement that we may come off worse through not being part of "the bug buy" might have been gracious on your part.

I concede though that if we're buying them from a different manufacturer (once they've done the prototype and got the approval, and set up manufacturing on a large/massive scale), the issue won't arise.

5. I’m not defending his timeline, merely pointing out what he’s said it is. This fits in with the national strategy of delaying infections so these products are available when those infections happens. It’s a plan, a reasonable one, so let’s hope it doesn’t amount to sweet FA.
Fair do. ........... but maybe if it's part of that plan, then they should have been looking to do this back in early Feb, when the "herd immunity" issue first came to light.

To be honest Moonay I’d expect more enthusiasm from you and recognition of national effort. I hope you’re feeling well. ✌️
Feeling beltin'. Might paint some garden furniture today. .......between nipping on here now and again. ;)
:cheers:
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
"just like you". Good job I didn't ;)). The procurement of ventilators (as I've said) will have the provisional allocation set out up front ...... I'd imagine with an option to alter it, should circumstances have changed upon delivery. This is the 3rd (I think) time I've said this.

The refusal to move about between countries any existing assets, already owned by specific nations is another thing altogether.
And you have inner knowledge of the workings of the EU in these unprecedented times how? They’ll be purchased (if they can) job lot, they won’t be dicking about wasting time beforehand working out who gets what. The main players will then use influence to get the most, given their people are dying. It’s the same principle as I’ve said re the medical supplies.

He hasn't delivered a prototype yet, as far as I'm aware.......and yet again, I'm not criticising him, at all, whatsoever. Just because I have in the past is completely irrelevant. It's nothing to do with this current issue.
He has. Done in ten days after the PM made the personal request. Its called the co-vent and designed to specific government requirements. It’s awaiting fast track regulatory approval so manufacturing can begin.

OK ...... but maybe an acknowledgement that we may come off worse through not being part of "the bug buy" might have been gracious on your part.

I concede though that if we're buying them from a different manufacturer (once they've done the prototype and got the approval, and set up manufacturing on a large/massive scale), the issue won't arise.
I did, but also said if we benefited by going alone I doubt that would be acknowledged.

Fair do. ........... but maybe if it's part of that plan, then they should have been looking to do this back in early Feb, when the "herd immunity" issue first came to light.
It’s a fast moving crisis. The science and medical advice is constantly evolving as more is known about the disease, it’s spread and how to address it. Hindsight is wonderful. Perhaps the US and EU should have utilised their own crystal balls and wouldn’t be in the same predicament.

Feeling beltin'. Might paint some garden furniture today. .......between nipping on here now and again
Aye, I’d touch up the top of your fence as well, I suspect the paint has worn away with overuse 😉

Wife has a cold now (I hope) so I’ve taken day off. Hopefully doesn’t develop otherwise that’s me and two year old isolated for a fortnight. Thank God for some good weather so can get him out in garden.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
And you have inner knowledge of the workings of the EU in these unprecedented times how? They’ll be purchased (if they can) job lot, they won’t be dicking about wasting time beforehand working out who gets what. The main players will then use influence to get the most, given their people are dying. It’s the same principle as I’ve said re the medical supplies.
.
Yes, I do. (Did). Not in this specific circumstance, obviously, but the general approach, yes.

It's interesting though that the latter part of your paragraph says exactly the same as I said at the start ! .................. but it's NOT the same principle re the medical supplies, ....... they are their own national assets which they're unwilling to share/trade.

I won't comment on this again, .....four times is plenty.

He has. Done in ten days after the PM made the personal request. Its called the co-vent and designed to specific government requirements. It’s awaiting fast track regulatory approval so manufacturing can begin.
.
Yep. I wasn't aware of that. I only read the BBC link put up by Johnnysking. Fair enough, well done to them. I mean it.

I did, but also said if we benefited by going alone I doubt that would be acknowledged..
:shrug:

It’s a fast moving crisis. The science and medical advice is constantly evolving as more is known about the disease, it’s spread and how to address it. Hindsight is wonderful. Perhaps the US and EU should have utilised their own crystal balls and wouldn’t be in the same predicament..
The speed of the science and advice is irrelevant. The demand could have been seen at the outset. ......the only issue was scale. It's just part of an integrated plan ........ no crystal ball needed. .

Wife has a cold now (I hope) so I’ve taken day off. Hopefully doesn’t develop otherwise that’s me and two year old isolated for a fortnight. Thank God for some good weather so can get him out in garden.
Take care of them both.
:love1:
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
Yes, I do. (Did). Not in this specific circumstance, obviously, but the general approach, yes.
Exactly not in this life and death situation

It's interesting though that the latter part of your paragraph says exactly the same as I said at the start ! .................. but it's NOT the same principle re the medical supplies, ....... they are their own national assets which they're unwilling to share/trade.
Same principal, it’s a time critical life or death situation. Normal rules are out of the window.

Fair enough, well done to them. I mean it.
Good. I don’t doubt your sincerity. It’s a national effort and is remarkable how people and businesses are pulling together. With a few notable exceptions, Mike Ashley for one.

The speed of the science and advice is irrelevant.
Of course it’s relevant. It’s underpinning the response.

The speed of the science and advice is irrelevant. The demand could have been seen at the outset. ......the only issue was scale. It's just part of an integrated plan ........ no crystal ball needed. .
Pure hindsight. Modelling and predictions were based on a limited data set and effect of virus not fully known. Seems like every country are short and the worlds greatest minds didn’t foresee this. You should apply for a job at the WHO with this insight!

Take care of them both.
Cheers pal. I’m still being nagged so all good so far!
 

pies'r'us

Vital Youth Team
I will, if any of us are here in ten years!

You are obviously proud of your business achievements and your philanthropy. However, globally you are in a small minority. There are many millions more born into poverty and dying in poverty. Try and look a bit more widely than your own back yard. I can suggest some stuff to read to give you a broader understanding of the fallibilities of the profit dominated system.😉
"Try and look a bit more widely than your own back yard."
That's rich coming from someone whom is obviously young, inexperienced, seemingly unsuccessful and living in a bubble world and I would guess, in an even smaller minority than me.

I don't need 'stuff to read' to broaden my understanding...etc. These no doubt will be 'subjective' publications usually authored by people like you. You need to read stuff about the failings in command economies and then try to provide evidence of one which has succeeded. You can't - there hasn't been any. You have an ideology which is pure fantasy and unachievable. You're chasing shadows.

I am very old and very worldly. I am well aware of the poverty and equality which exists in the world. I was born into poverty. I know what it's like to have no money nor food and rely on others to put a roof over my head. I got up off my arse and fought. And before you start saying it wasn't real poverty. You have no idea about my circumstances nor what life was like in this country 70+ years ago.

I've met you a thousand times before; the disgruntled, disaffected, discontented, miserables.

You're wasting your life, you can't mend the world. Get off your arse, get out of uni and get stuck into the wide world instead of pontificating and moaning about things you can't do nowt about.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
Exactly not in this life and death situation

The process is the same .......... regard less of situation. You even said so yourself.

Same principal, it’s a time critical life or death situation. Normal rules are out of the window.

You have stuff in the shed. They're yours. You can decide what to do with them. If you decide to buy some more stuff with a neighbour, to get a discount price, you'll have to decide who gets them first. See ...... two different scenarios



Good. I don’t doubt your sincerity. It’s a national effort and is remarkable how people and businesses are pulling together. With a few notable exceptions, Mike Ashley for one.

Looking like we might have Ventilatorgate. I see a couple of manufacturers are kicking off, saying that Dyson got his order coz of his donations to the Tory party. I hope this isn't true, but it will be interesting to watch it unravel.

Of course it’s relevant. It’s underpinning the response.

Pure hindsight. Modelling and predictions were based on a limited data set and effect of virus not fully known. Seems like every country are short and the worlds greatest minds didn’t foresee this. You should apply for a job at the WHO with this insight!

No ........ what is most relevant is the initial modelling, which would/should have shown a shortage at a point in time. Action should have been taken then. I'm not decrying the current actions ........ just saying that it could/should have been done earlier.

This kind of thing was my job. It's not rocket science.

Cheers pal. I’m still being nagged so all good so far!

Good to hear it.
You'll note I've played sneaky this time ........ by incorporating my responses within your quote, if you reply, it'll only show this little bit. :nerner:
;)
 

Hampton

Vital Squad Member
"Try and look a bit more widely than your own back yard."
That's rich coming from someone whom is obviously young, inexperienced, seemingly unsuccessful and living in a bubble world and I would guess, in an even smaller minority than me.

I don't need 'stuff to read' to broaden my understanding...etc. These no doubt will be 'subjective' publications usually authored by people like you. You need to read stuff about the failings in command economies and then try to provide evidence of one which has succeeded. You can't - there hasn't been any. You have an ideology which is pure fantasy and unachievable. You're chasing shadows.

I am very old and very worldly. I am well aware of the poverty and equality which exists in the world. I was born into poverty. I know what it's like to have no money nor food and rely on others to put a roof over my head. I got up off my arse and fought. And before you start saying it wasn't real poverty. You have no idea about my circumstances nor what life was like in this country 70+ years ago.

I've met you a thousand times before; the disgruntled, disaffected, discontented, miserables.

You're wasting your life, you can't mend the world. Get off your arse, get out of uni and get stuck into the wide world instead of pontificating and moaning about things you can't do nowt about.
👏👏👏👏👏👏