SK Sturm Graz vs Nottingham Forest

redfromitaly said:
Exactly. Shocking isn't it? You can train (I shouldn't state the obvious that training sessions and actual games especially the ones that really matters are totally different sport, with totally different demands in terms of intensity and everything else) as much as you want, as hard as you can but if you don't play actual games you'll never be totally match fit. That's why teams in every sport play friendly games during pre-season, sometimes even during the season, the behind closed door games. Even individual athletes like tennis players needs to play in less demanding tournaments (best of three sets) to be in better shape for Grand Slam tournaments (best of five sets). Same for golfers, runners etc.
Then you've to think about that we had three different managers, so three different coaching staffs with three different training methods and ways of doing things.
So, moral of the story, yes the more they play the fitter they'll be.
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Sometimes it is necessary to state the obvious, although you will not be thanked for pointing it out
 
Pretty much adding the same as everyone else in bewilderment at the lack of fitness in some of the players that came in. It was a frustrating night for the fans and we should’ve picked up all three points, even with the changes. Wanting to put in a positive here, we’re still in the top 24, so there’s that!

Oh and let’s go and do a number on dirty Leeds.
 
Re the fitness thing...it seems Nuno not only engineered his exit but also ruined our pre season. Even results during the same pre season show that we were going to have a tough season.
It's not only the " new" players that are suffering.
 
MaltaRed said:
Re the fitness thing...it seems Nuno not only engineered his exit but also ruined our pre season. Even results during the same pre season show that we were going to have a tough season.
It's not only the " new" players that are suffering.
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Yep…Once he knew it was game over, he totally tossed off pre-season and we’ve been right on the back foot ever since….
 
What a lot of old pony some of you are talking

"Nuno tossed off pre season".

Ok, where's the slightest bit of specific evidence for that?

Don't give me "bad friendly results".

Are some of you actually trying to convince yourselves that Nuno stopped training them, stopped getting them fit for pre season, and threw all the pre season games by drawing five of them?

How many pre season training sessions did you attend?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
What a lot of old pony some of you are talking

"Nuno tossed off pre season".

Ok, where's the slightest bit of specific evidence for that?

Don't give me "bad friendly results".

Are some of you actually trying to convince yourselves that Nuno stopped training them, stopped getting them fit for pre season, and threw all the pre season games by drawing five of them?

How many pre season training sessions did you attend?
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Not beyond the realms of possibility, though if he knew he was fucking off to West Ham. He can't throw the results of the friendlies, but certainly could have the players in a less-than-ideal condition.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
What a lot of old pony some of you are talking

"Nuno tossed off pre season".

Ok, where's the slightest bit of specific evidence for that?

Don't give me "bad friendly results".

Are some of you actually trying to convince yourselves that Nuno stopped training them, stopped getting them fit for pre season, and threw all the pre season games by drawing five of them?

How many pre season training sessions did you attend?
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Nothing to do with friendlies. Nuno was engineering his exit whilst pre-season was on going.

If it is a load of $hit, why do you think the players so massively unfit?
 
JC21 said:
Not beyond the realms of possibility, though if he knew he was fucking off to West Ham. He can't throw the results of the friendlies, but certainly could have the players in a less-than-ideal condition.
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Can be very difficult to give 100% when your heart is not in something…..
 
Red.Eagle3 said:
Nothing to do with friendlies. Nuno was engineering his exit whilst pre-season was on going.

If it is a load of $hit, why do you think the players so massively unfit?
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They aren't massively unfit. You are massively exaggerating.

The players that are playing every week are perfectly fit and are probably playing more minutes per game (for many of them) than last year, as neither AP nor SD are quick with subs.

We have lost some players to injury. Some of that is Postecoglou, some of it is luck, some of it having more games to play, some of it is injury prone players.

The newbies are struggling for fitness because they haven't been playing- as is the case with every player who suddenly comes into the side having not played for a while.

I would assume you have been watching Forest for at least as long as I have (pushing 30 years) and this is nothing new. It's more acute in the PL than the championship because games are miles harder.

Some of the players, like Bakwa, Kalimuendo didn't do any of pre season with us. McAtee and Hutch did barely any. Dominguez didn't do any. Awoniyi did very little

People are making this whole thing about fitness into some sort of fact. It is not. Dyche has moaned about fitness because every single manager who comes into a club in trouble says exactly the same thing. We've had enough mid season managerial changes for you to recognise that
 
Pope John XXIII said:
They aren't massively unfit. You are massively exaggerating.

The players that are playing every week are perfectly fit and are probably playing more minutes per game (for many of them) than last year, as neither AP nor SD are quick with subs.

We have lost some players to injury. Some of that is Postecoglou, some of it is luck, some of it having more games to play, some of it is injury prone players.

The newbies are struggling for fitness because they haven't been playing- as is the case with every player who suddenly comes into the side having not played for a while.

I would assume you have been watching Forest for at least as long as I have (pushing 30 years) and this is nothing new. It's more acute in the PL than the championship because games are miles harder.

Some of the players, like Bakwa, Kalimuendo didn't do any of pre season with us. McAtee and Hutch did barely any. Dominguez didn't do any. Awoniyi did very little

People are making this whole thing about fitness into some sort of fact. It is not. Dyche has moaned about fitness because every single manager who comes into a club in trouble says exactly the same thing. We've had enough mid season managerial changes for you to recognise that
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Here’s a fact for you. The manager has done the bleep test every year with his players since he was at Watford. He did it with our boys a couple of weeks back and the results gave him every right moan….
 
Red.Eagle3 said:
Here’s a fact for you. The manager has done the bleep test every year with his players since he was at Watford. He did it with our boys a couple of weeks back and the results gave him every right moan….
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So what?

We have not lost any game I have attended through fitness.

We have lost because of missing chances, stupid defending and the bent PGMOL. We are not conceding from corners every week because the players are not fit enough to jump. It wasn't fitness that meant CHO missed the chance of the game, or jumped out of the way of Amad's shot so it went in.

It wasn't fitness that was the problem with Postecoglou's suicide football.

The players needed to be fit enough to play Nuno's football, which wasn't very labour intensive and involved some of the least amount of running and pressing in the entire league. It got us to 7th last season.

So no, it's not a surprise they are failing a bleep test. For the football we were expecting to be playing, there was no bleep test needed
 
Pope John XXIII said:
So what?

We have not lost any game I have attended through fitness.

We have lost because of missing chances, stupid defending and the bent PGMOL. We are not conceding from corners every week because the players are not fit enough to jump. It wasn't fitness that meant CHO missed the chance of the game, or jumped out of the way of Amad's shot so it went in.

It wasn't fitness that was the problem with Postecoglou's suicide football.

The players needed to be fit enough to play Nuno's football, which wasn't very labour intensive and involved some of the least amount of running and pressing in the entire league. It got us to 7th last season.

So no, it's not a surprise they are failing a bleep test. For the football we were expecting to be playing, there was no bleep test needed
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Can’t argue with any of that, but the fitter we are, the better we can be. There is no doubt about that. For example, there much more chance of me getting on the end of a ball and scoring a goal if I’m not blowing out of my arse.
 
The pundits always seem to say that the first thing that goes as players begin to tire is concentration, that could explain a few of the late lapses we have had in games, Swansea, Betis, Man U equaliser spring to mind. If that is the case it probably wouldn't be visible, but would be there & maybe down to a lack of a bit of fitness
 
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