SK Sturm Graz vs Nottingham Forest

splitty62 said:
So who is to blame there then? The players? Nuno? Ange? How can players come into a season unprepared
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Nuno was already engineering his exit come pre-season and pretty much tossed off getting the players up to full speed. When Ange came in, he couldn’t believe how unfit some of them were and knew they were no way ready to play the pressing style he wanted.
 
Ingy said:
How many games has he started in the past 12 months though? Match fitness comes from playing and he hasn't had the chances either at City or here.
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Not that many admittedly, but he did play a full tournament with England u21s during the summer
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Because a lot of these new players were not with us for the whole of pre season and most of August
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For sure from a tactical point of view a preseason here (with the current manager) would have been advantageous, but from a basic fitness perspective I don’t agree. They would have been doing pre seasons at their old clubs.
 
Peter Baxendale Thomas said:
You telling me training normally and being rested for about 8 games results in not being able to go 90 against a terrible Austrian team.
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Exactly. Shocking isn't it? You can train (I shouldn't state the obvious that training sessions and actual games especially the ones that really matters are totally different sport, with totally different demands in terms of intensity and everything else) as much as you want, as hard as you can but if you don't play actual games you'll never be totally match fit. That's why teams in every sport play friendly games during pre-season, sometimes even during the season, the behind closed door games. Even individual athletes like tennis players needs to play in less demanding tournaments (best of three sets) to be in better shape for Grand Slam tournaments (best of five sets). Same for golfers, runners etc.
Then you've to think about that we had three different managers, so three different coaching staffs with three different training methods and ways of doing things.
So, moral of the story, yes the more they play the fitter they'll be.
 
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Polly 433 said:
After Saturday MGW will get a rest. Off to England camp but game time will be limited.

Sangare, Yates and Dominguez have not played much and only Sangare goes to play at international level.

Back 5 remain unchanged and rest a few if circumstances allow.

Longterm view. Better to go strong and win, finish in top 8 than playing two extra knockout games at time of FA cup 4th5th round.
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Fair play Polly bang on here as usual 👏
 
Spaces said:
For sure from a tactical point of view a preseason here (with the current manager) would have been advantageous, but from a basic fitness perspective I don’t agree. They would have been doing pre seasons at their old clubs.
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Of course, but they are all going to be very different, disparate pre seasons under different managers with different expectations and often in different countries.

Ndoye was doing pre season in Serie A, which I think starts later and is certainly less physical.

Kalimuendo in France - goodness knows what the fitness requirements are there in comparison. Jesus has just played since January and barely had a break. McAtee was at Man City, but he would not have been part of their core group
 
redfromitaly said:
Exactly. Shocking isn't it? You can train (I shouldn't state the obvious that training sessions and actual games especially the ones that really matters are totally different sport, with totally different demands in terms of intensity and everything else) as much as you want, as hard as you can but if you don't play actual games you'll never be totally match fit. That's why teams in every sport play friendly games during pre-season, sometimes even during the season, the behind closed door games. Even individual athletes like tennis players needs to play in less demanding tournaments (best of three sets) to be in better shape for Grand Slam tournaments (best of five sets). Same for golfers, runners etc.
Then you've to think about that we had three different managers, so three different coaching staffs with three different training methods and ways of doing things.
So, moral of the story, yes the more they play the fitter they'll be.
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Ryan Yates has not had a lot of minutes but could run most of those players off the pitch.

McAtee and Kalimuendo ought to be pushing harder than anyone to get in the side. First one in, last one out, doing extra runs, whatever. Anything and everything to be as ready as they possibly can be the second the call comes.

Clearly, they haven't been. Because going off after 60 odd minutes with cramp against a side that played with the intensity of a lower tier Championship team is frankly taking the piss.
 
Peter Baxendale Thomas said:
Ryan Yates has not had a lot of minutes but could run most of those players off the pitch.

McAtee and Kalimuendo ought to be pushing harder than anyone to get in the side. First one in, last one out, doing extra runs, whatever. Anything and everything to be as ready as they possibly can be the second the call comes.

Clearly, they haven't been. Because going off after 60 odd minutes with cramp against a side that played with the intensity of a lower tier Championship team is frankly taking the piss.
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Unless it’s due to injury or illness Should dock their wages until that can prove they’re fit enough to play 90 minutes
 
Peter Baxendale Thomas said:
Ryan Yates has not had a lot of minutes but could run most of those players off the pitch.

McAtee and Kalimuendo ought to be pushing harder than anyone to get in the side. First one in, last one out, doing extra runs, whatever. Anything and everything to be as ready as they possibly can be the second the call comes.

Clearly, they haven't been. Because going off after 60 odd minutes with cramp against a side that played with the intensity of a lower tier Championship team is frankly taking the piss.
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It really is taking the piss , they have specialised conditioning programmes , special diets etc , amazing training facilities , absolutely no excuse for a bloke in his prime and who is supposed to be a professional athlete going off with cramp after 70 minutes against a team who were absolute dog shite let's not forget , it's not like they were chasing shadows against someone like Man City trying to get the ball off them. Pathetic.
 
redfromitaly said:
Exactly. Shocking isn't it? You can train (I shouldn't state the obvious that training sessions and actual games especially the ones that really matters are totally different sport, with totally different demands in terms of intensity and everything else) as much as you want, as hard as you can but if you don't play actual games you'll never be totally match fit. That's why teams in every sport play friendly games during pre-season, sometimes even during the season, the behind closed door games. Even individual athletes like tennis players needs to play in less demanding tournaments (best of three sets) to be in better shape for Grand Slam tournaments (best of five sets). Same for golfers, runners etc.
Then you've to think about that we had three different managers, so three different coaching staffs with three different training methods and ways of doing things.
So, moral of the story, yes the more they play the fitter they'll be.
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I can understand that passing under pressure, finishing etc can suffer through lack of games, but I don't see why overall match fitness should. Mo Farah didn't need to play football every week to stop him getting cramp before 10,000 metres or even the marathon. I don't have a clue about training techniques, but I'm sure they can train players up to last 90 minutes. Depends on natural ability as well of course, as some people are fast over short distances, and others can run all day, but professional footballers should have a decent amount of stamina.
 
Cramp isn't normally caused by a lack of stamina but by dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalance.

Prevention is usually a case of hydrating properly before match and by taking on extra electrolytes during one.

Doesn't excuse them coming down with cramp relatively early though.
 
Phatnovice said:
Cramp isn't normally caused by a lack of stamina but by dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalance.

Prevention is usually a case of hydrating properly before match and by taking on extra electrolytes during one.

Doesn't excuse them coming down with cramp relatively early though.
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Its also caused by "This is going badly and I want to go off"
On occasion.

The cause and effect of injury vs performance is very two sided. We don't only perform worse when we have more injuries, we get more injuries when we are performing worse.
 
Peter Baxendale Thomas said:
Ryan Yates has not had a lot of minutes but could run most of those players off the pitch.

McAtee and Kalimuendo ought to be pushing harder than anyone to get in the side. First one in, last one out, doing extra runs, whatever. Anything and everything to be as ready as they possibly can be the second the call comes.

Clearly, they haven't been. Because going off after 60 odd minutes with cramp against a side that played with the intensity of a lower tier Championship team is frankly taking the piss.
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To be fair Yates could run a marathon with little more than a glass of water and a rich tea biscuit for breakfast.
 
Phatnovice said:
Cramp isn't normally caused by a lack of stamina but by dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalance.

Prevention is usually a case of hydrating properly before match and by taking on extra electrolytes during one.

Doesn't excuse them coming down with cramp relatively early though.
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Yes, there is a lot of subjective data out there that confirms this.
 
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